Apparently I can't be a feminist because I changed my name when I married.

[dustandfluff]

I heard someone (a feminist writer dunno who) on Radio 4 a few months ago saying women who change their names when they get married are not feminists.

. I have long been interested in feminism and women's rights. I appreciate the feminist arguments against changing your name. I had my reasons but I don't think that's relevant here. To me this sounds as though to "be" a feminist you have to meet a particular standard.

I think this is the kind of thing that puts a lot of women off the movement.

Opinion s anyone?

If you are so happy and confident in your "different and informed choice", why are you so cross about the way others see it?

Whereas I feel very uncomfortable being addressed as Mr and Mrs Hissurname, it is always Mr Hissurname and Ms Hersurname here. I hate the term maiden name as well, I have a surname, if I ever changed my name I would have a previous surname.

I also think on this thread is the sort of thing that puts people off feminism. Sorry dear, you are being subjugated by the patriarchy but you just don't know it. Why not accept in this case, that people make different, informed choices?

Because the reasons given often show that it wasn't an informed choice. It is to do with pressure and social expectations - all of which have a historical context.

I have yet to meet a man who hasn't been offended when his wife refused to take his name. No doubt many men do exist but I suspect they remain in a minority and it leads me to question what other underlying sexist beliefs they have that they might not be aware of. These beliefs shape society so yes, as a feminist, I think they should be challenged.

That surprises me, Blistory. I've yet to meet a man who has been offended by his wife's decision not to take his name.

"I have yet to meet a man who hasn't been offended when his wife refused to take his name."

I should introduce you to my DH then . He couldn't care less about it. My mum, on the other hand, wondered why I was bothering to get married if I wasn't going to take DH's name .

I know it's hard not to but I don't think we should be criticising the choices other women make when they choose something that does not advance feminism. If we are to direct our disapproval anywhere it should be at whatever is causing women to make anti feminist choices in the first place. A woman may well accept a lower wage than a man if she needs the work and who would judge her for that? Pregnant women and new mothers are not in an equal bargaining position relative to their partners. You can't blame them for not wanting to rock the boat. Anyone who struggles to understand why a woman would give her child the father's surname over her own must be living in a lovely utopian bubble.

My DH doesn't mind in the slightest that we both use our own names. He gets mistakenly called Mr Mysurname and just goes along with it, the same as I do if I get called Mrs Hissurname.

Sorry, I should clarify - I have met many who claimed not to be bothered but were happy to express their more honest beliefs when talking about me rather than their own wives. I've had many a man explain to me why DP would be offended by my stance and how deep down they felt rejected when it happened to them. My own DP has admitted that although the situation will never arise with us, he'd be a little hurt but would never let it show as he respects my position. He's never really been able to express quite why he would feel hurt and I suspect that he tolerates my position rather than understands it. So openly he would express support but it would really be about face saving in front of his friends and family.

"I also think on this thread is the sort of thing that puts people off feminism."

Like I said upthread, some people are quite easily put off.

I think a position that relies on men being more truthful with you than they are when they speak with other people is not a very useful one in a discussion. I could just as easily claim that men are being more honest when they speak to me and say that they aren't bothered!

I think people should bear in mind that critiquing a practice, is not the same as criticising an individual's choice or the reasons for that choice.

There is sometimes a fine line and sometimes people stray over it; but people who get angry about other people analyses a practice and trying to understand why and how it happens and interpret that discussion as a criticism of a choice they have made, usually do so either because they're a bit insecure about that choice or because they don't believe it's valid to critique it. And why would a critique be invalid?

I personally couldn't give a flying fuck what choices individual women make. I do give a fuck about the circumstances in which they make those choices and I am interested in hearing people's opinions about it.

I was clear that I said that no doubt many men do exist who genuinely aren't offended so not sure why I need to be presented with individual examples of your DHs.

I don't assume that they're more truthful with me, but that they appear to be more truthful ABOUT me and have an opinion on my stance about keeping my name which I find strange when compared with their stance about their own partners.

Well, she's not a feminist because she has kept her father's name. I will be changing my name to Ms. Estrogen when I get married, because I am the only true feminist around here.

I've always said we should do a Malcolm X and just call ourselves X.

That could get very confusing for the Census people though.

My surname was my mothers first husband's name (not my fathers). I changed it when I got married because I had more of a connection to dh than my mothers first husband who I had never met.

My DH was not comfortable with the idea of me keeping my name and giving the DC any other name. Given that plenty of people (including the various mysogynistic types with whom he is required to do business) would have regarded that choice as hysterical, dramatic and attention seeking and would no doubt have labelled me as one of those 'mad feminist types', I did sympathise with him not wanting me to make a political statement on this one occasion. 'Rejecting' his name would have upset his family as well and I was and still am keen to nurture a positive relationship with them for all our sakes.

"My surname was my mothers first husband's name (not my fathers). I changed it when I got married because I had more of a connection to dh than my mothers first husband who I had never met"

This is the kind of response I don't understand. Did you feel more of a connection to dh's father that you took his name ? Genuinely curious.

I don't think he would have been "offended".

Amanda - for what it's worth, I really relate to all you have written. :)

Amanda I don't have a problem with you taking your husband's name in itself but you appear to be saying that you did so because of the negative impact that doing otherwise would have. And that's where the issue lies for me. Not on you taking his name but the reasons you describe for doing so.

quite

And therein lies one individual's compromise with the patriarchy.

I also have taken my DH's name, for reasons outlined on page 1. I'm not entirely proud of the decision. I think it is a big deal and as I say, my decision doesn't sit all that well with my principles, if I'm entirely honest. But it was my compromise to make. Along with others I make every day.

I'm still a feminist at heart, and always will be.

(Altho equally you could have just laughed at them all, refused to engage with the debate because it is frankly RIDICULOUS, and encouraged them to step froth from the nineteenth century)

Don't we all do things to avoid negative consequences all the time? I'm not saying it's an honourable reason, it's not.