Who is part of the patriarchy?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

When we use the term patriarchy, do you think that the men you know are part of the patriarchy? And if no, then who is part of the patriarchy?

It is a bit like when politicians talk about not limiting the powers of the banks, or cutting bonuses, because 'the markets wouldn't like it'.

The markets don't think, or feel. The people who run the markets wouldn't like it. And they happen to be the ones benefiting from the status quo.

The market analogy is very good.

If Eats comes back, I would recommend reading Gerda learner The Creation of Patriarchy and Sharon Smith feminist author, two different perspectives but both rooted in the study of history and the development of society. It might help to get different perspectives that are not from some 101 blog.

www.isreview.org/issues/02/engles_family.shtml written by Sharon smith

www.amazon.com/The-Creation-Patriarchy-Women-History/dp/0195051858

The article I linked to earlier was very clear on the point that the author blamed capitalism rather than MEN. I am no real Marxist/Socialist but I totally see where she is coming from. The nature of the Patriarchy has changed so much from the time when everyone worked at home and children were looked after by whoever was available the time, I guess - mum, dad, older children, neighbours, GPs etc.

It is a totally different situation today where everything MUST have an economic value. And raising children is given "nul points" in todays view of the world. People are too short sighted to see the importance in successfully bringing up a future tax payer. I personally don't aim for a Xenia like scenario where it the FEMALE that must get the top job. The top jobs are few and are for people of whatever sex that put everything else second. I would like to see a scenario where bringing up children is seen as valuable to society at large, and that men play a much larger role.

At the end of the day, this view of Feminists as ManHaters MUST stop. I have never felt oppressed in my entire life. I went to Grammar School, FE, have a career. I never self-identified as a Feminist before. I do now. But the idea that MEN are the enemy is not something I can identify with AT ALL. Some men are sexist wankers. There are plenty who are not.

So let me get this right? You are suggesting that when capitalism emerged patriarchy came about as a by product? So in the same way when you light a fire to get heat you also get smoke? But there was no intention to create the patriarchy it was an unforseen by product of capitalism?

And everyone is part of the patriarchy - men women and children? And the patriarchy harms men as much as women?

Am I right, is that what you are suggesting?

The patriachy does hurt men though. Maybe not as much as women, but there is still an effect. How difficult is it to be a SAHD where almost all services for young children are geared towards "mums and tots" and where other men may see you as devalued as a man. Try setting yourself up as a male childminder and see how far you get.

I'm not saying that the patriachy has an equivalent negative effect to that of women as I don't agree with that at all, but to say that all men benefit from a patriachal society isn't right either.

We are all part of a patriachal society. The biggest losers are women, and like any group in a position of power, men are unlikely to want to work towards changing the status quo, even if it would have benefits for them.

EBAL - not quite.

Aspects of patriarchy precede capitalism and are found in pre-capitalist and non-capitalist societies.

I meant they are both similar types of things - emergent properties of a society that we then put a name to. But society Is never as neat as the names we put to it.

Okay, so let me get this right. Patriarchy emerged by accident? But there was no intention to create the patriarchy?

And everyone is part of the patriarchy - men women and children? And the patriarchy harms men as much as women?

Is that right?

yes - pretty much.

No, it was God's will. And 'the natural order of things', and more recently an elaborate ploy by women to evade the stress of the public sphere.

I think The Patriarchy would have to include people who insist that childcare is a woman's job.

I am pretty certain that a couple of blokes didn't sit down one day and say "you know what"

That is bullshit! What you are basically saying is the patriarchy doesnt exist. Why dont you just be honest and admit you think there is no such thing?

No patriarchy is not a by-product of capitalism. Capitalism exists within patriarchy as an economic system.

Before capitalism we had cottage industry and farming a very different economy where there was less division of labour. before that we had feudalism.

Patriarchy seems to have been an accident, an unintended consequence of human social development through our ability to shape nature and create surplus value in the form of commodities that could be traded.

The Patriarchy only really serves Alpha Males. White MC/UC white males.

No. I do not believe that the patriarchy harms men as much as women, but harm is done nonetheless.

I believe that the patriarchy came about through organised religion, It really cranked the motor up and truly began the patriarchal society we know today. I believe that the men in power - the patriarchs - knew what they were doing, and did it because they wanted the power that women had within pagan societies.

Everyone is a part of the patriarchy.

Domestication of animals happened long before the Greek empire, the Romans or indeed Jesus and other beardy men.

argh have been rumbled, it's true I don't believe in the patriarchy or any other unpleasant thing that is difficult to comprehend and overcome

like housework

I believe the Patriarchy exists. I don't believe that it exists in the consciousness of many - swap the word Status Quo.

Oh. I thought it was like a cryptic crossword clue