Who is part of the patriarchy?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

When we use the term patriarchy, do you think that the men you know are part of the patriarchy? And if no, then who is part of the patriarchy?

I think I see positives and negatives there, mini. I agree with you, that endless splits into smaller and smaller groups is demoralizing.

But IMO sometimes there's a case for saying that there are differences between oppressed groups. And we do all get lumped in together (as if because I'm a white woman in a relationship with a man, I'll somehow have innate understanding of what it's like to be a black man, because we're both oppressed ... ). In a way that makes it easier for the patriarchy.

It's like when you see panel shows, and they're thinking 'OMG, we have a woman tonight ... right, best not push things too far by getting a black man, or a gay person, as well, that'd be too much!'. Sometimes when we're all lumped together as a group labelled 'the oppressed', it becomes an excuse to give only one of 'us' a space at the table.

www.womensviewsonnews.org/2012/07/feminism-and-patriarchy-who-gets-to-define-them/

Btw - the 'hmm' face is (I hope, obviously) intended at the sort of idiots who make that kind of crass comment, not at you!

Fuck YEAH Porto at that link.

I was on a thread recently where I was arguing the point that unless you are in favour of women being treated less well than men or that you believe that men SHOULD have complete power over women then you're a feminist.

I stand by that utterly, and I believe in the patriarchy (how can one not?), I do NOT and WILL NOT accept the OP's assertions that all men are the enemy and that all men reinforce the patriarchy. This has simply not been my experience and I refuse to believe that the children that I am raising will grow up to be men who make sexist jokes/comments, patronise women or not challenge rape myths. It is simply too depressing to buy into that mindset.

Absolutely Shirley.

I also think that the 'all men are bastard members of the patriarchy club' mindset is very off-putting to those who are starting to get to grips with feminism.

I agree it is depressing to think that all men are part of the patriarchy including boys we raise. But it is also a fact

Being oppressed by a system does not make you part of it.

I have yet to meet a man in real life who does not reinforce the patriarchy. I am willing to believe they exist, but they are very rare

It is a fact that we are ALL part of the patriarchy. Even women who are feminists and live with other women are part of the patriarchy.

Because we live in a patriarchal society, it shapes every part of everyone's lives, and it damages us all, men women, straight, gay, parents, the childless.

All of us. You cannot choose not to be "part of the patriarchy" unless you go and live on an island somewhere, or move to a place which operates under a matriarchy (if such places actually exist - which I doubt, I imagine that even matriarchal societies are only called thus because women have slightly more power than they do in a patriarchal society! That might make an interesting thread)

Dio you have children eats?

How do you know it's a fact? Just because you say it is? There are an awful of of people on here disagreeing with you. How do you have special knowledge?

And I think you may have missed my question above - if you get every woman to agree with you - what then?

Shirty, yes. But eats can't seen to understand that.

Well, I've told you that I know plenty of men who do not reinforce the patriarchy (whatever that means), others have told you the same...seems like you might be just hanging around arseholes!

Thanks Porto, I will have read of both links.

LRD, that's interesting, I had never considered that. I think people experience different forms of oppression, it takes different forms, much like KRIT said way up thread. I do though think that all roads lead in the same direction. So to completely eradicate all discrimination and injustice we need wholesale change. I'm not certain that individual groups working in opposition will achieve this.

I give you an example, Dworkins and Catherine McKinnon co-opted the support of the right wing in order to get the laws changed on censorship of pornography in several states and I think Canada. So two groups with completely conflicting ideas. So we get some censorship but no end to pornography. two rads hop into bed with right wing christians hell bent on taking away access to abortion. It suits the elite to have divisions because it dilutes the message and prevents participation. I certainly couldn't support their actions because I won't hop into bed with the right (no surprise there )

I want to know if eats has kids, because I find her assertion that my son will grow up to be an oppressive misogynist bloody offensive.

Forgot shirty, according to many on here only men they dont like are part of the patriarchy. I wish it was that simple.

Are you referring to eleanor's post? That was a joke. You know, a humorous statement aimed at making others laugh.

I think you're referring to Eleanor's post upthread?

She was joking I think.

We are all part of the patriarchy whether we like it or not.

And, will you answer my question? Or are you just going to post the same statement?

mini - yes, I see your point. I don't have anything more coherent to say in response than that, sorry! Not because you're not convincing but because my brain is mush. But I do see.

cuervo - I dunno ... not having kids, but wanting them one day, I reckon those of you who already have children maybe have more cause to be smug? I think about it like this: obviously, someone has to have the child who grows up to be horrible. Sometimes you can channell the Daily Mail and blame the parents, or the teachers, or whatever, but sometimes it seems we just don't know why Little Jimmy turned from being very nice boy from a loving home, into someone who's done appalling things.

At least if you already have a child, and you know they're lovely, you're one step ahead of folks like me thinking 'argh! What it s/he is a horror?'

(This is semi-serious ...)

Blame -= what was your question?

Eats
You do realise that not ONE poster has agreed with you.

Not that some posters disagree, but that no one does.

We have explained the same point time and time again, but you don't seem to be able to grasp it.

I cannot decide if you are being deliberately obtuse or if you are just thick, tbh.