In this day and age! A thread for unbelievably obvious examples of sexism.

[blackcurrants]

A thread for "I can't believe that just happened to me! In this day and age!"

Yesterday we spent about 40 minutes in a Toyota dealership, looking to spend about $10k on a used car. The salesman only asked DH's name, only wrote down DH's number, and only talked to DH about the cars available. DH kept referring to me, asking my opinion, and generally looking uncomfortable. Eventually DH snatched back his license from the salesman and said "No, I don't think so. Let's go." And as I turned I added "Joe? Thank you for your help today. I work in sales and I wanted you to know that since I walked in here you haven't asked me a single question, or addressed me directly even once. At one point you walked away from me, talking to my husband about the next car you were showing us, so that I couldn't hear what you said. I just want you to know that I earn more than my husband (actually not yet true, but soon will be!), I know more about cars than my husband (v.true), and you acted like I didn't exist. Which is why we're leaving."

When I got into our car, DH was cheering. We drove 5 miles away and bought a nissan.

As we were doing the dishes last night, talking about this, DH said "I do hope you tell Mumsnet about it." he knows me so well.

sashh - how is is not sexist to assume that Dr Smith is a man? And when a high proportion of medical students (and doctors of my friend's age) are women these days, it's also just plain silly.

Wigeon - It is often difficult to say whether something is deliberately sexist or just down to someone's personal life experiences. I know that there are female fire fighters, for example, but I will automatically use, 'he' if referring to a fire fighter. I'm not being sexist but I am sure as hell making a generalisation based on my own personal experience. I would like to be corrected if the fire fighter was, in fact, female. I would be offended if this was done aggressively followed by a lecture about being sexist though.

Yes, I generalise. No, there is no intended malice behind it.

but making assumptions about someone's sex based on information that is not related to their sex is, by definition, sexism, surely?! We all do it to some degree but it doesn't mean it's not sexist.

Florencejon, ok, I agree that I would probably refer to a midwife as "she" (because less than 1% of midwives are men), and a firefighter as "he" (because only 3% of firefighters are women). But by that logic, the delivery driver should not have assumed that Dr Smith was a man because women are 40% of all doctors!

Stealth - Wow, great comment! I don't think it is black and white. There are certain professions which are male or female dominated and I am using a mixture of personal experience and statistics when I imagine the gender of the person performing that particular role. I cannot however think of a single profession which I would automatically assume is not open to a woman. Times are changing and as things change, so do my personal experiences. I cannot default something which is not true, IYKWIM. It's not that I don't think women can be, for example, firefighters. It's that I know that it is a male dominated profession, at the moment.

Interestingly, I have met Dr Sally Ride, the astronaut, and this is a profession which, were the word 'astronaut' used, I wouldn't assume said astronaut to be male.

Good example with the profession of midwife. I, too, would assume a midwife is female, but wouldn't be shocked if he were male. Statistically, the midwife will be female. From a statistical point of view, I am correct. From a sexist point of view, am I wrong?

The way the Chief Constable described the two police officers murdered yesterday.

"I cannot however think of a single profession which I would automatically assume is not open to a woman. "
gigolo? :o

Stealth - ah, yes, but women are always the boss in that line of work!

Seeker - No, I wasn't offended at how the Chief Constable described the two police officers yesterday and I doubt their families were either. It is their tragedy, not ours.

Professions not open to a man: diaphragm tester...

lady in waiting to the Queen

Ooo, good one Stealth. What would a King have? Men in waiting or still ladies in waiting?

Actually I believe breastfeeding counsellor is another as you need to have breastfed yourself.

Workmen referring to me as "Mrs partnerslastname". Not just from one company, but pretty much every one we've had in. Not only have they happily married me off, but I also didn't get a choice in whether I kept my name and title or not

I didn't know that you have had to have breastfed yourself to be a breastfeeding counsellor. I learn something new every day here! A male gynaecologist, a male nurse, a male midwife - would not have a problem being treated/advised by any of them. I think I feel the same way about a male breast feeding counsellor. I guess if his advice and practical help is correct, then I don't see why a male couldn't do the job. I'm aware that some woman would like to have the choice though.

Conversation where I was describing my new job to an old couple (my parent's friends). he was a retired banker - real old school

Wife ; so, Poppa, I hear you have a new job?

Me: yes, I'm going to work in a bank

My dad (v recently widowed but v proud of me) ; yes, an investment bank

Husband/old fart : yes, it's quite incredible the jobs they give women these days

Wife; oh jack, don't be so old fashioned, women have been in these jobs for quite a while now

Old fart: oh yes I know that, dear, it's just that "THEY GIVE THEM RESPONSIBILITY" (said with utter incredulity)

??????????!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't quite get my head around describing a 32 year old woman as a "young girl" either. Can you in all seriousness imagine a 32 year old male police officer being described as a "young boy"?

Have only read OP, and just want to say well done, blackcurrants!

And I like my nissan. Gets you to places.

I think there's a difference between expecting a person (depending on their profession) to be a certain gender and then being disapproving / non accepting when it turns out otherwise.

In the cases of the car salesmen talking over the women to their hubbies, now that is extremely annoying. I see quite a few posters justifying their annoyance in terms of the fact that their car knowledge is greater than their DHs but even in the case where the woman's car savvy is minimal that would annoy me, because how can you expect to learn anything if someone is ignoring you?

When I opened up my bank account here, the cashier asked me if I was male or female. Due to the grammatical nature of the language here, you need to know (and boy oh boy, wouldn't that be an interesting debate.....) He told me he used to assume but had once made a mistake. I guess someone challenged a stereotype for him and he modified his thinking.

we had this at a mazda dealer. I was trying dissuade DP from buying a bloody mx5 and the sales man was like 'oh come on now, you'll love it. think how pretty you will look in it, blah blah fuck' i was telling dp how impractial it was. he bought it, sales man gave me a very smug grin.

didnt look quite as smug when we bought it back less then a year later!

TWAT!

samandi I can imagine a 32 year old male police officer being described as a 'young lad', yes.

whogivesaduck1 - I'm curious. Who was paying for the car? If it was a joint purchase, then I think it was not only the salesman who was being disrespectful to you.