In this day and age! A thread for unbelievably obvious examples of sexism.

[blackcurrants]

A thread for "I can't believe that just happened to me! In this day and age!"

Yesterday we spent about 40 minutes in a Toyota dealership, looking to spend about $10k on a used car. The salesman only asked DH's name, only wrote down DH's number, and only talked to DH about the cars available. DH kept referring to me, asking my opinion, and generally looking uncomfortable. Eventually DH snatched back his license from the salesman and said "No, I don't think so. Let's go." And as I turned I added "Joe? Thank you for your help today. I work in sales and I wanted you to know that since I walked in here you haven't asked me a single question, or addressed me directly even once. At one point you walked away from me, talking to my husband about the next car you were showing us, so that I couldn't hear what you said. I just want you to know that I earn more than my husband (actually not yet true, but soon will be!), I know more about cars than my husband (v.true), and you acted like I didn't exist. Which is why we're leaving."

When I got into our car, DH was cheering. We drove 5 miles away and bought a nissan.

As we were doing the dishes last night, talking about this, DH said "I do hope you tell Mumsnet about it." he knows me so well.

[Lovecat]

Went to visit a friend with DH to see her new flat.

She said 'oh, while you're here, DH, can you take a look at my washing machine, it's leaking and I don't know what's wrong with it.'

DH: Um... I know nothing about washing machines.

Friend: Oh, just have a look at it for me, please.

We went into her kitchen and looked at the washing machine that she'd inherited with the flat. The seal around the door was sagging badly with water running down it; I pointed this out to her, saying it was a v. easy job to fit a new seal and she could pick one up from a plumbers merchants/B&Q really easily.

She looks up at DH. 'And what do you think, DH?'

DH shrugs helplessly as he hasn't got a fecking clue about machinery of any kind. 'What LC said.'

Friend: Oh. If we went out now and got one, could you fit it for me?

DH: Erm... not really, LC knows what she's talking about, she could do it...

Friend: Perhaps I'll just get a man in...



DH is that mechanically illiterate he literally does not know how to open the bonnet of his car to fill the screen wash bottle. I have to do it for him. My dad was a electrician who became a motor mechanic and taught ALL his children how to change oil/spark plugs/battery/bulbs/fix the alternator if it's come loose etc. DH and I have great fun at the garage with the repairmen as they ALWAYS address the questions to him. I then have to translate...

[Lovecat]

Ooh, I've got another one!

I recently emailed a local martial arts club about lessons for DD - they do a free trial session. I didn't realise until I got his reply that I hadn't specified DD's sex, just said 'my seven yr old' in the email.

The reply began: 'we will be happy to welcome your son to the session...'

Okay [for benefit of the blamers], because I didn't specify I know he had to take a guess and it was a 50/50 chance of getting it wrong, but why not just put 'your child' if you don't know? How is a 7 yr old's sex relevant to taking a martial arts class?

[florencejon]

Lovecat - Your dad sounds fantastic. Unfortunately, for now, you are still in the minority regarding your skills.

[florencejon]

And from the assumption of the instructor, it looks as if your daughter will be in the minority for taking a martial arts class! A seven year old challenging the view of an adult martial arts club is a triumph.

[NoMoreNotNever]

I'm a gardener; one of my customers always wants his son to start the lawnmower for me because he says women aren't strong enough. He has no problem with my heaving the massive thing around as a woman though. I have stopped telling him in advance and just surprise mow now.

[florencejon]

Kim - "I don't know anything about all this stuff, I'm just a dumb blonde"

Maybe she doesn't understand anything about radios. Not everyone can be an expert at everything. There's no shame in asking for help or advice. As for the 'dumb blonde' comment; I think that reveals more about her self esteem than anything else. Really sad that she considers her perceived lack of intelligence and her hair colour to be her identity.

[Portofino]

florencejon, is it your intention to argue that none of these are real cases of sexism? Cos it is getting boring already.

[Mrskbpw]

Lovecat - your husband sounds like my dad. He's terrible at everything - can't even change a lightbulb.

So my mum does everything in the house. She did ALL the childcare when we were growing up, had a full-time job, does the housework, the DIY and all the gardening.

She has many, many, many examples of this casual sexism and she always points it out in a very Mumsnetty 'did you mean to be so rude' way. I have learned from this and try to do the same.

(In my dad's defence, he also will never keep quiet if he thinks someone is being sexist/racist/homophobic - I very much admire this.)

[maswera]

My mum will often refer to an adult woman as a 'little girl' - eg "the little girl on the checkout in the co-op" or "that little girl who reads the local news". There is no way she would ever refer to an adult male professional as a 'little boy'

[maswera]

Ours and a few neighbours' houses surround a jointly-owned green that we take turns to mow. When the rota came round in the spring, it only had the men's names on. (I would be surprised if DP had ever mowed a lawn before we moved in.) The (AFAIK perfectly fit, young healthy) woman who lives alone doesn't feature on the rota.

[OTheHugeManatee]

Before I met him, DH rang a local riding stables to ask about lessons as he'd always wanted to learn to ride. The conversation went like this:

DH: 'I'm calling to ask about riding lessons...'

Stables: 'And how old is the little girl?'

DH: 'He's 35 and weighs about 12 stone.'

Stables: '....'

[maswera]

Apparently there are some posh restaurants that have 2 menus - one with prices on (given to the man) and one without any for the laydee, so she doesn't have to worry her pretty little head about how much it all costs

(I should add though that although I have been to a fair few posh restaurants in my time I have never actually come across this myself...)

[msrisotto]

maswera - i've never experienced that.

More often than not my DH gets given the bill and even if I have moved the bill over to my side of the table, put my credit card on it, they'll still be awkward about who is paying for it and often make a comment about how lucky he is to be treated by me! He is lucky though....

[florencejon]

Portofino - no, not arguing that they are not real cases of sexism at all. I do, however, think that how we react to them is important from an equality point of view and for our own sanity.

If we succeed in challenging a stereotype in a male dominated word and plant the seeds of change in someone's opinion, then I think that, that is something to celebrate, rather than feel angry about the fact that it happened in the first place. I guess you feel differently.

If we carry on being angry and defensive every single time we surprise a male with our choices, lifestyles, careers and ideas due to his perceived ideas of what is normal, then that has a knock on effect on our lives, those around us and our health.

I am passionate about promoting equality for women, but I am also passionate about many other things in life and the judgmental comments from males, (which stem from many, many factors), do not cause me to lose sight of the fact that life can really be very enjoyable.

[SarryB]

lovecat - your DH sounds like my step-dad. My mum is the one who changes the fuses, fixes the toilet when it's blocked, does all the gardening and DIY, as well as looking after the kids and working part-time. She's pretty awesome. Mind you, he does do all the cooking!

I've been in several shops where people (both men and women) have just spoken to my OH and blatantly ignored me. I just put it down to OH's stunning good looks though - everyone is just trying to chat him up!

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

Maswera - I came across the priceless ladies menu thing once while on business in America about 15 years ago., I had heard of it but never believed it really happened. Never seen it here though.

[HazleNutt]

yes I've seen the menu without prices in a very posh restaurant. I asked them to give me a normal one.

kim, while I'm in France and it might be different in UK, I have noticed a massive change in the past few years. The waiters always ask who wants to taste the wine and don't assume it's DH and they put the bill simply on the table, not even closer to him. I suspect there has been some general "feminist sensitivity" training

[blackcurrants]

Florence If the car is for you, then why not go and buy it on your own? If you chose to take your DP with you, then when first encountering the salesperson, why didn't YOU open the conversation with, 'I am interested in......." If the salesperson then continues addressing the conversation to your DP, then yes, I can understand your feeling insulted and walking away.

The car was for us - it's big family car. DH will drive it more on a daily basis, I imagine, as he presently does the daycare run, but I expect I'll drive it more on weekends. And as it happens, I did speak directly to the salesperson, saying "We are looking for.." as he walked up. As I mentioned in the OP, I work in sales and DH hates negotiating and 'feeling sold to' so he tends to take the backseat in such conversations whereas I enjoy getting down to a bit of a haggle, and like to know lots of nerdy details about cars. But I wouldn't dream of making such a huge purchase without his feeling right about it, we're a team. So of course we went together.

And as I said in my OP, the salesperson then continued to address DH all the time, to the extent of starting every sentence of his with DH's name. "SO, DHsname, are you looking for something under 100,000 miles?" "So, DHsname, would all-wheel-drive be acceptable?" when I was the one answering the questions (because, as DH kept saying, I know more about cars than him.) We're a team - when we purchase computers, because that's DH's line of work, he tends to do more of the talking. With cars, it's me. When we were buying a house, it was both of us.... that's just how it goes, we're actually an equal partnership. It's just that people don't seem ready for that!

I wasn't offensive - quite the opposite, I was extremely gentle with the salesperson, considering how offensive he had been to me. Saying that I'll "confirm stereotypes'' about whatever because I challenged his sexism is daft. I actually spoke to him on a "hey, I work in sales, just for feedback'' kind of level.

[TiggyD]

I was sat in a hall for a training evening. It was for childcare with 100 women and me the only man. As usual. The female trainer was at the front with 2 other women who were organising the event trying to get the projector/laptop to work. After 5 minutes of struggling one of them called out "We need to find a man!"
I was a bit embarrassed and kept quiet even though I would have been the perfect person to sort it out!

[nickeldaisical]

It is annoying if men are given the bill.

In my family, DH usually pays with his card from the joint account because I never remember to take anything out with me (i'm amazed i haven't locked myself out of the house before now!), but that's laziness not ladyness.

he also mows the lawns. but that because he has days off and i don't. he does most of the cooking, most of the cleaning etc, but that's because i'm usually BFing (the one task we can't both do!)

I try to head off any sexism where i find it bubbling.

[Bookbrain]

We visited the Tank Museum in Dorset last summer. One of the attractions is the chance to sit inside a Chieftan tank and be talked through the controls, life onboard etc by an ex-member of tank crew.

DH and I queued up for bloody ages and took our turn with our two DSes. I sat in the Navigator seat - cue hilarious jokes about women not being able to read maps, women drivers etc. I pointed out that I am actually quite capable of reading a map without getting lost - was given a withering look.

There was then a lecture on the fact that the British Army apparently don't have female tank crews, because (a) women lack the mental toughness and (b) it is all very very difficult and too complicated for women's brains, as you have to do many things at once, including reading maps and steering the tank. I took issue with this and we were hastily ushered out of the tank with much eye-rolling from the tank guides.

I've worked in male-dominated environments and I can cope with a bit of banter about women drivers, boring, cliched and inaccurate as it may be. But I was livid that they said these things in front of my young, impressionable sons, who were looking up to these men as not only knowledgeable experts but also superhero types (tank commanders!!).

Looking at the army website, it does appear that you have to be male to be a tank crewman.. I wonder what the real reason is.

[nickeldaisical]

yes, why assume that a man will be more capable than a woman of sorting out a technical problem?
it usually me that knows this stuff. DH wouldn't have a clue!