In this day and age! A thread for unbelievably obvious examples of sexism.

[blackcurrants]

A thread for "I can't believe that just happened to me! In this day and age!"

Yesterday we spent about 40 minutes in a Toyota dealership, looking to spend about $10k on a used car. The salesman only asked DH's name, only wrote down DH's number, and only talked to DH about the cars available. DH kept referring to me, asking my opinion, and generally looking uncomfortable. Eventually DH snatched back his license from the salesman and said "No, I don't think so. Let's go." And as I turned I added "Joe? Thank you for your help today. I work in sales and I wanted you to know that since I walked in here you haven't asked me a single question, or addressed me directly even once. At one point you walked away from me, talking to my husband about the next car you were showing us, so that I couldn't hear what you said. I just want you to know that I earn more than my husband (actually not yet true, but soon will be!), I know more about cars than my husband (v.true), and you acted like I didn't exist. Which is why we're leaving."

When I got into our car, DH was cheering. We drove 5 miles away and bought a nissan.

As we were doing the dishes last night, talking about this, DH said "I do hope you tell Mumsnet about it." he knows me so well.

I once told our GM: "Charley, it's ok. Not only have I heard the word, I've been called it. Repeatedly."

I don't like certain swear words, but that's nothing to do with me being a woman, I just don't like them. Having said that, if someone used one, unless it was in earshot of my kids, I wouldn't bother saying anything either.

In my line of work, you get used to being sworn at on a regular basis.

This swearing thing....what really brasses me off is is not swearing or swearing accidentally and apologising to everyone, but a certain type of male (kind of old school type Lothario - think Leslie Phillips perhaps) who will deliberately swear then make a point of apologising to the female/s in the group. It's an ultimate put-down as in "I'm a man and men swear but not in front of poor little ladies, but I need to do it to underline I am a big strong man and you are a little feeble soul so I shall swear - and then apologise to you to show you how strong I am and how feeble you are".

Difficult to explain, but I'm pretty sure some posters on here will identify with that sort of situation.

Why are movie magazines like Total Film and Empire in Tesco in the 'men's/male' section? I'm virtually certain i've seen women in cinemas.

Also, my shaving gel is 'optimised for male skin'. I'm not sure whether there's some scientific basis for that one or not.

the only person I've heard being offended by swearwords recently was an American chap I was talking to on the phone.
He was very offended because I used the phrase "fucked up" (not even referring to him, and not in anger) and he said "I refuse to continue the conversation if you're going to use bad language" and hung up on me
seriously.
It was like something out of the 1950s.

Just answered the door to a bloke in a van touting for work resurfacing drives. 'Hello, lady,' says he, all matey like, 'can I have a word with the boss?'
'Actually,' says I, while shutting the door firmly, 'I don't have a boss.' The look on his face . . .

Oh grimbletart thank you for articulating that.

There's a canonical example in the original Smiley's People series. The head of the service keeps saying "blah blah swear-sorreee-Molleee blah blah." He's precisely a pointless posturing prick in all his motions, trying to assert himself as a Hard Man in front of real professionals.

It annoys me every time I watch - but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why he was doing it and what was so wrong.

Ha exactly - don't you faint now, delicate flower, when we big men discuss big man business with big manly words!

20+ years ago so not quite this day and age, but I was told by a friend's father that my then ambition to become an engineer was inappropriate because I would have to swear in order to assert my authority. It wan't that he was sexist, he told me, he was sure I was clever enough, but swearing was apparently beyond the pale. I was

Nickel - when I worked on the phones(sales) I was told that at the 1st swear word we told the swearer we would not tolerate being spoken to like that, on the 2nd we put the phone down. But that would be swearwords directed at us, not just in general...

that's fine, i can understand that - but it was my first and he didn't give me a warning!
i was dealing with 2 companies -the first company were the people i had the contract with and this company were contracted from them if that makes sense.
the first company neither told that company nor told me that i had to tell them. hence the fuck up.

possibly more telling was that i couldn't even think of another phrase than fuck-up

Nickel - Americans are a weird bunch - some really don't swear, ever, and won't even 'curse' (eg they'll say "darn'' for 'damn' and ''heck'' for 'hell' because of the Christian injunction against cursing, or something) and get super, super offended if you say 'oh it's all gone to hell in here' or something, in a breezy manner. like when I describe my front room

Mind you, this is from an intrepid nation of hunters and pioneers who think the word 'toilet' is rude, and therefore ask the way to the 'bathroom' or 'restroom'. Right. Because I need to have a 'rest' before I wet myself. Uuuh-huh.

What's fascinating is that after living here for 8 years, I've definitely adapted. I was on a looong train ride in England last summer and a young man on his phone was swearing the air blue, and I had a very weird compulsion to cats-bum-mouth at him at the same time as wanting to snigger and embrace the whole train carriage, shouting "I'm home! I'm HOME! SOMEONE GET ME SOME SALT AND VINEGAR CRISPS!"

(I restrained myself)

I can't bear the apologising-to-you-because-you-are-a-laayyydeee thing. It does only tend to happen when you're one of very few women in a work setting, doesn't it? I've been working in a female-dominated department for so long I'd forgotten it, but now I recall it did happen a lot at Oxford. There was this sort of sniggery undertone to the apology, as if to say: look, our language excludes you and points to your difference, and that you don't belong here- but then we apologise for hurting your ladyfeelings, so we're not being sexist!
Urgh.

BelfastBloke, Tesco recently changed that thanks to Internet campaigns yay!

Not last week in my local Tesco, they didn't.

I wouldn't genralise blackcurrants as where I grew up (in the South in heavily Christian area) everyone swears, like you wouldn't believe. Dh is now living in the states (we moved back) and he is horrified (he is from Essex) that our kids will talk like that. and we're not weird, you are.

Regarding not changing hair for a partner, I'm not sure that really is sexist. I feel that goes both ways. My friend's husband got a lip ring knowing she hated them.. I was genuinely pissed off on her behalf. Obviously you can do what you wat and your partner has no right to tell you what to do. BUt I think your partner having a preference and keeping your hair one way for that person... I don't think it's the end of the world. Dh likes my hair long, I'm kind of neutral about it so I keep this way. He likes his side burns veering towards mutton chops.. which I hate (I don't live in a Jane Austin novel) so he keeps them mid length. It's a happy compromise.

I'dCal - I'm going to stand by my general statement "Americans are a weird bunch", but will modify it with "and so is every other nation I've lived amongst, including my native one" if that makes you feel better
Also, I said "some don't swear, ever" - I've heard some shockingly foul language here, as everywhere else. The bit where 'hell' and 'damn' are proper swear-words was an eye opener, though. Not encountered that in the UK, not even amongst my happy-clappy vicar acquaintances.

Accepted

in the South in heavily Christian area) everyone swears, like you wouldn't believe. Dh is now living in the states (we moved back) and he is horrified (he is from Essex)

• Does he know your NN?

nn? What my Mn name you mean? Not current one, why?

I live abroad, in the news this evening we had a story about a totally radical nursery that does not force girls to play with dolls and boys with trucks only, but all kids get to experience a range of toys and activities. And they showed a girl using a hammer and a boy pushing a pram. One of a kind, such a novelty idea, can you imagine!

What developing stuck in the 50s, backwards sexist country is this, you wonder? France.

grimbletart I understand exactly what you mean. It's infuriating. It reminds me of the other thing I used to hear a lot in my previous job: "Well these women want equality in the workforce, but can they handle it?"

Because we obviously run off crying if someone upsets us!

I used to work quite often on building sites, and was usually the only woman there. Sometimes there would be a twattish site manager who would say something like 'Mind your language today, lads, we've got a lady present' thinking he was being polite to me, I suppose . The minute he walked away, I'd say to the other workers 'You heard what he said, no fucking swearing in front of me, I'm a laydee dontchaknow!' which broke the ice so everyone was able to talk normally even if I did then have to listen to numerous stories about football fights and dodgy nightclub sex.

IdCal - because yuo've got a swearword in it....