Male nannies/childminders

[Lottapianos]

Just listening to a discussion on the radio about male nannies. The general feeling is that having men work with young children is a good thing. No argument there!

However, the reason given is not because men are 50% of the population and it's good for children to spend time with both men and women so they can start to see both sexes as equal. The reason is that 'men and women play differently' - men are more 'rough and tumble' and kids love that Oh and some boys are growing up without a man in the home and they need a male role model in order to develop normally and not grow up gay. Or something

I really do get sick of all this essentialism - men do this, women do that - in the same way as I can't stand people talking about how boys and girls are inherently different. I really think that putting people into boxes based on their biological sex is stifling and unfair - what happens to people who don't 'perform' in the way they are expected?

Any thoughts on this issue?

I have never once said that children should be kept away from all men. But if the choice is sitting an unaccompanied child next to a man or a woman, it makes sense to sit that child next to a woman. The risk may be small - but I honestly cant understand why you wouldnt support such a small thing that harms nobody at all, is so easy to do and may just protect a child.

Because it has harmed someone - the poor man on the plane!!!!! And you may belittle it by saying he mustn't mind about having his feelings hurt but that man has suffered a public humiliation. How do you know that other passengers on the plan weren't thinking, "Oh, no smoke without fire - wonder what the pilot knows about him that we don't?!" How do you know some over-sensitive peadophile-hysteria-witch hunt person wasn't surreptitiously taking a photo of him on their mobile and distributing it around the internet as the current bloke to look out for?? It's about so much more than feelings, it's about reputations and self-esteem and common decency. it is because of this kind of ridiculous hysteria that men who come across lost children are afraid to approach them and leave them to wander off further on their own etc. It's completely ridiculous and it's wrong.

I don't support it because it is completely wrong - so wrong that I would like it to create a big scene with the man standing up to you and asking what possible grounds you could have for defamation of character - and also 'what on earth I am supposed to do in a plane seat in full view of the third person and the person across the aisle?' it is madness! Sadly men would meekly move rather than draw attention to themselves against loony women. If ever a DC gets put next to my DH on a plane I am not swapping to sit between them!

Of course we are talking about a mans feelings. It is airline policy, not directed at this man.

And children have been abused by men who are strangers on planes. Blanket over your knee and a creeping hand does not make that difficult.

But fine, you want to put a mans 5 minutes of hurt feelings before the risk of a child being abused. Sad that so many mothers care more about a mans feelings than a child potentially being sexually abused.

I should have agreed with Felicity earlier - I can't engage with this insanity any more- it certainly is ludicrous.
I feel very sorry for your DCs Eats.

Hey I don't agree with Eats position either but that's a really nasty thing to say.

Eats has a point
There ARE an alarming amount of men (because there should be none ideally) who sexually abuse children.
Far from all men obviously. But they exist. How do we deal with that?

Treat it like a serious crime and get real prison time is always my first answer.

PretzelTime is right. I read that 1 in 4 girls are abused and 1 in 6 boys, and that men commit 99% of all child sex offences. So there are a HUGE number of men out there who just CANNOT be trusted with children. And I know it isn't fair on all the innocent men out there who are viewed with suspicion, but that isn't the fault of mothers who just want to protect our children. It is the fault of these disgusting men.

Clearly the solution is to not allow men near children. Ever. I mean most abuse happens in the home so lets campaign to have fathers removed from the family home. No exceptions. Just not worth the risk is it.

Lets make a blanket law where by no male is allowed to sit near a child on any form of transport. And on the spot fines for them looking at children.

In fact lets just round up all men and push them out to sea. Problem solved !

You haven't answered my point, just reiterated about hurt feelings. It's not just feelings, it's reputation and good-character and everything else.

The man on the plane issue aside, I am really disappointed that what could have been a sensible and interesting discussion about all aspects of men working in childcare has been reduced the level of "careful because lots of men are abusers."

Furthermore, I think some comments on here have been disappointingly small-minded and offensive to men who do work with young children.

I agree with Felicity and Exotics, I can't discuss it any further. I feel I would like to sign off as "Outraged from Tunbridge Wells" or something silly - that's how ridiculous, I think it has become.

I was assaulted on a plane while travelling alone as a young girl. Absolutely perfect environment for it. Curtains all shut, lights down, everyone with blankets over them. Seat next to me was empty, when I woke up it wasn't. He was a fillipino fisherman (he told me).

rosabud - What points havent i answered? Reputation and good charcater? We are not talking about someone being publically pilloried in their town square. A man was asked to move seat - thats it. I am sure the employee will have explained that it is airline policy so those immediately around the man would have heard this. Othes on the plane and further afield would never have known what had happened if the man had just quietly moved. There was no reputational damage here.

Yes logically to drastically reduce sexual abuse of children you would banish all men. But of course that is simply not realistic. So we put harm reduction strategies in place to try and protect children. We do CRBs on workers, we have helplines to report suspected abuse, etc. Not sitting an unaccompanied child next to a man on a plane is simply a harm reduction strategy. And a very simple one.

And the truth is we all make choices about harm reduction strategies. In terms of childcare judging how we can reduce the risks to our child - particularly serious risks.

booflebean - I am so sorry to hear that! That is truly awful.

So you would rather just see all men as potential paedophiles then but like I said before the greater risk would come from your male family members so i hope you are also keeping an eye on your husbands, sons, brothers and friends because the is where the risk really is. Why stop there lets treat all people for what they have the potential to do even if it's based on a minority lets not let it stop us.

Actually know it is not about making your DCs frightened. You can steer children away from potential problems without pointing them out to them. So you spot an obviously drunk man who looks like a street drinker weaving down the street. You dont have to clutch your DCs to your breast and say stay away from that man. You simply do something like - lets cross the road here and look at x.

Yes a greater risk comes from family members. Does that mean you dont let family members near your DC? Well that depends on your family. I would totally trust my own father and brother - my Uncle, not at all.

Exotic - sorry you are being naive if you think most DCs would react like that. Most DCs, even outspoken DCs, feel embarassed, ashamed and dont know what to do.

Exotic - That comment is appalling!!! I am shocked and upset that you think it is okay to blame a child for being abused. Really that is so disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself.

If I was asked to move on a plane because it was policy that lone males could not sit next to unaccompanied children, I would be really upset. It just reinforces the label that men are potential paedophiles.

Did you see the experiment on TV where they had a lost child who was crying in a mall? So many people walked past and ignored her - why? Because they were afraid of getting involved and people thinking the worst of them?

What kind of society are we creating for ourselves? Where people are afraid to help children? Where society think the worst of people? Where assumptions are automatically made?

Yes - logically having the male move might reduce the chances of assault. What - from 1 in a million ? But what price does society pay? Just reinforcement of the labelling of men as paedophiles and abusers.

CRBs are worthless. Just someone has not been caught yet.
But - as lots of people have pointed out - abuse happens in the home and with the most unsuspecting people. I knew a really nice couple - turns out the husband was abusing the daughter. I was so surprised - but isn't that the thing with abuse. You can't tell who the potential abusers are.

It can be awful being a man. Some people look at you as a potential rapist, abuser and paedophile. Just because of the awful actions of a minority of males. It's like being guilty until being found innocent.

And you know what - I would be so wary if I came across a lost child or a child who needed support. Because I would hate people to think I had intentions.

And people wonder why men don't get involved in childcare, why men don't get involved in anything that involves children. Because of the way some people just think the worst of them.

Don't victim blame Exotic. Especially to a child.

I am old enough to remember the debate before CRBs were brought in. the same arguments were made that it is saying that all childcare workers might be abusers and casting suspicion against innocent staff.

I would always help a lost child or child who needed support and I know my father does the same.

Exotic!!! A child is a child, why would an innocent child know what to do in a situation like that!
She may have been in shock and scared.
The only one to blame was the sick peadophile