Male nannies/childminders

[Lottapianos]

Just listening to a discussion on the radio about male nannies. The general feeling is that having men work with young children is a good thing. No argument there!

However, the reason given is not because men are 50% of the population and it's good for children to spend time with both men and women so they can start to see both sexes as equal. The reason is that 'men and women play differently' - men are more 'rough and tumble' and kids love that Oh and some boys are growing up without a man in the home and they need a male role model in order to develop normally and not grow up gay. Or something

I really do get sick of all this essentialism - men do this, women do that - in the same way as I can't stand people talking about how boys and girls are inherently different. I really think that putting people into boxes based on their biological sex is stifling and unfair - what happens to people who don't 'perform' in the way they are expected?

Any thoughts on this issue?

I remember the renowned children's advocate, John Walsh, whose son was murdered by a male child sex offender, advised parents not to leave their children alone with men as men commit something like 99% of child sex of offences. He was pilloried for this, but the thing is, the facts speak for themselves. It is a fact that men a overwhelmingly more likely to sexually abuse children than women. I have no qualms about male teachers and feel I shouldn't be against male nannies, but I know that deep down I wouldn't want a male being alone with my children. My husband is even more adamant about this.

Sorry for typos - iPad keeps changing my words.

Is your dh happy to be alone with your dc, miloben? Because most child abuse occurs at the hands of family members. Statistically, the person a child is most at risk from is his male primary carer.

Going back to the original point of this thread and men paying for sex, it seems to me that in the end those opposed need to answer two questions.

1. What do you propose is done about human sexuality? Adults wanting sex, feeling horny, feeling the need for attention, perhaps even selfishly just feeling the need for release?

1. During this thread it is clear that arguments have been offered for those who work and use the sex industry, as well as those who claim it is exploitative and based on abuse. This thread has demonstrated that very few will change sides, and it seems no common ground of any value can be achieved. Given that the status quo is what those against want to change, which means either changing peoples minds or mobalise far, far larger numbers than you have been able to do already. Or simply imposing legal and social restraints on the public at large, how are YOU going to move the argument on. As I said the status quo is that prostitution will continue in much the same way as is.

Wrong thread, LeithLurker.

Oldlady, I think it should be the other way round, is milo happy to leave her dc with their father, grandfather, brother, uncles, nephews. And would that be a blanket no or only a no to some. If it is a no to some what method does milo use to identify those that she feels are risks, families all over the world would pay very highly for some kind of full proof "peado" detector.

Dammit sorry everyone, and thank you old lady!

But her dh is even more adamant, plainly he cannot trust himself?

Both my DC have had male primary teachers. One, they adored. And rightly so, he is a bloody good teacher. The other is a total arse. So, much like female teachers really. Personally, I want child care to stop being viewed as just 'women's work', so I want more men working in those settings. In our gender divided culture, men and women do bring different things in to the classroom. It's not perfect, but at least if children are exposed to male and female carers/workers/teachers, they get a more rounded experience.

In which case Old Lady it is also something dor them both to answer. They say you cannot choose your family, but you sure as hell can choose emploees, those that come with references and recognised training are much more likely to be less of a risk than a family member who only shows you the bit of their character that they want you to see.

I suspect miloben just posted without thinking. Of course she trusts her family (well, I hope she can) but men in childcare are the sons, brothers etc of other people too.

And sorry for talking about you in the third person, miloben. You will of course make the decisions that are right for your family.

A few years ago I was l

Stupid iPhone!
I was looking for a part time nanny a few years ago, my mum had just died and I had just split up from ex. I really would have preferred a male nanny for my boys, they do need a male role model who wants to play with them, doesn't get angry etc. I couldn't find one anywhere and that wa a real shame.

I think a lot of single mums with boys would like a male nanny so that some of the football type games in not keen on are played with enthusiasm!

I can't afford, and don't need a nanny now, but a male role model in primary school would also have been a good thing for my boys.

I believe that a child is more likely.to be sexually abused by a man than a woman. But i believe the vast majority of men have no sexual interest in children. I'd welcome more male child carers for exactly the reasons stated by the op. Ds's school has one male member of staff (afaik) - the head teacher of course

I think that you will only get equality when some single mums with girls want a male nanny to play football with their girls. I am rather shocked that this is on a feminist board, the very people who don't want childcare seen as woman's work, and yet many only want them employed with other people's children and they want a woman looking after their own babies and toddlers.

I wholeheartedly agree exotic.

Saying men can't help but abuse/see children sexually is more offensive than saying women can't help but wash up- after all statistically women do more of that....

Some people wonder why I'm on Mumsnet when I have no children. Answer: Because I work in childcare and think it's a good way to find out what customers think.
Some people also wonder why I come into the Feminism section when I'm in possession of a winkie. (Useful things - Means you can type and still have 2 hands free for a Rubik's cube). Answer: because I have a job which is widely seen as women's work and has the low pay/low value image that goes along with that, I find it harder to get work, and have to put up with peoples prejudices because of the sex I am.

Anyway, back to the OP.
When I go into a nursery for the first time the children do look at me and think "Man! Let's jump on him!", but as they get to know me they treat me as more than just "The man" and as Tiggy, the one who tells great stories without a book, finds bugs and beetles, does the yoghurt dance whenever they have yoghurt etc. When a child first sees me the only thing they have to go on when deciding what I'll be good for is that I'm a man. They do learn to think of me as an individual as they get to know me.
I think the idea that women do this and men do that is due to the fact that men mostly do do this and women do rather tend to do that. The reason why men tend to do this and and not that, and women tend to do that and not this is mostly because they want too. Then you get into the whole nature/nurture debate.

Statistics: If there were no men working in early years anywhere, then 100% of abuse carried out by early years workers would be done by females.

About 2 thirds of abuse is carried out by men. 66%. If there are 2 men in a nursery and 8 women, that means if there is abuse it's twice as likely to be a woman doing the abusing than a male.

Tiggy - where you did get those stats from? Because when it comes to sexual abuse of children by childcare workers, men are way more likely to sexually abuse than woman.

Of course mothers may decide to choose to leave their child with a male worker for a variety of positive reasons. But to pretend that leaving a child with a male worker does not mean an increased risk of child abuse, is to wilfully ignore the facts.

And leithlurker, I am touched and flattered that you describe me as one of the 2 most well known feminists on mumsnet.

In terms of children and in particular girl children being at an increased risk of sexual abuse in families - that is very tue. A particular risk factor is a step parent for sexual abuse. Obviously all mothers would hope that they can judge their partner and family well enough to know whether their child is at risk from them, but sadly that is not always that easy to detect.

Eats You're being ridiculous, would you leave your child alone with your husband? How would you know he wouldn't abuse the child? The fact is that 90% of abuse is carried out by people known to the victim, so you should be more careful leaving your children with your husband or relatives... I am really dissapointed that a forum for 'equality,' and wants men to spend more time with the kids, or people expecting women to do the housework are generalising all men who want to do these things, breaking down gender roles are paedos and abusers. The fact is that a tiny proportion of all people are paedophiles, and an even smaller proportion are child carers... What about CRB checks and other background checks, the fact you are generalising all male child carers makes me actually quite ill.

I had two lovely male teachers when I was in primary school. I remember all all my lovely teachers fondly, regardless of gender. My older brother went to the same school. (obviously.)

It's very deluded to assume a teacher who happens to be male will change your sons' life forever. In fact, it's itself sexist. (conscious or subconscious)

My brother is your stereotypical politician at only 2-3 years older than me whom is the strongest male feminist I've ever known.
My brother actually credits his Grade 3 (female) teacher was the reason for his strong beliefs in equality -obviously after his mother (who asked to keep her and her daughters pain private) he became outraged at my mother fear. Not at HER, but at the judgemental assumption of the public.

My DB's courage matured me. When I eventually spoke? I said I was so proud of my brother's footsteps and courage I decide to follow him. I am now a Young Labor Delegate.

(grin)

You are very welcome Eats you can choose not to believe me but I did mean it as a mark of respect which is in part why your posts on here are odd. I do see what you are saying, you identify a large source of abuse and put appropriate resources in to it. However life is about compromise and in order to promote women not being seen as only good at child care which is the corner stone of wider anti women thinking, you need to find a way to encourage men to accept their responsabilities for child care. Using the spectre of a statistical risk is going to give both men and women the excuse for society to NOT change. In which case feminism becomes what you as far as I can tell have always argued it is not and that is about women being victims.

There's a lovely male nursery nurse at DD's nursery.

Many nurseries are very clear on having safeguarding measures in place to protect children and staff alike.

Childcare should be gender-neutral, for the good of society and I'm not impressed by "paedo-alert" attempts keep the status quo.