Male nannies/childminders

[Lottapianos]

Just listening to a discussion on the radio about male nannies. The general feeling is that having men work with young children is a good thing. No argument there!

However, the reason given is not because men are 50% of the population and it's good for children to spend time with both men and women so they can start to see both sexes as equal. The reason is that 'men and women play differently' - men are more 'rough and tumble' and kids love that Oh and some boys are growing up without a man in the home and they need a male role model in order to develop normally and not grow up gay. Or something

I really do get sick of all this essentialism - men do this, women do that - in the same way as I can't stand people talking about how boys and girls are inherently different. I really think that putting people into boxes based on their biological sex is stifling and unfair - what happens to people who don't 'perform' in the way they are expected?

Any thoughts on this issue?

[Empusa]

This argument for men not being in childcare because some men are abusive is ridiculous, can you imagine the outcry if the same logic was applied to not allowing women to do certain jobs?

[exoticfruits]

Not only is it ridiculous, but it will always be 'women's work' while the attitude persists.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

I think it is important that all mothers are aware of the risk of sexual abuse of their children and that those most likely to do this are relatives followed by trusted adults e.g. in childcare or out of school activities. It means that this is an issue they take into account when choosing who their child interacts with. So for example, it may mean a woman wanting a baby wont ignore red flags if her husband appears to have unhealthy attitudes towards children or women.

It also means when looking at childcare a mother can make decisions with this on mind. For some mothers thsi may mean that they dont want any men looking after their child. For others it may mean they want to check proper safeguarding procedures are actually put into practice.

But I find it insidous to blame mothers for putting their children first.

[madwomanintheattic]

I'm fascinated that eats is steadfastly refusing to answer olkn's family query. As a lesbian, I get that the immediate parent role is unlikely to be filled by a man, but there must be other males around the kids?

Peedo hysteria. And on the fwr board.

Am lolling that it's because fems aren't as naive about equality as the rest of the world, though. must have taken some time to wrangle that one out!

[madwomanintheattic]

X post.

I find it insidious to blame all men for the minute percentage that are paedophiles, in terms of available employment, tbh.

[PanofOlympus]

I think it's also true that fathers put their children first. Or again is that the preserve of someone else?

And it isn't insidious to directly discriminate against half the population's potential work plans. It's just plain wrong and has no place in an equality-driven agenda.

[FelicitywasSarca]

Eats by your logic....

Women shouldn't expect equal treatment as politicians, because it is true that statistically there have been less of them than men, statistically some of them have been crap, and statistically female prime ministers of the UK have not been well liked.

Therefore some people will chose to ensure the women they vote for is capable, others will choose a blanket ban on voting for women and this is their perogative.

Put like that it's fairly offensive isn't it?

[Lottapianos]

Wow! Ok...... I wrote the OP. I checked the post a couple of hours after I wrote it and was disappointed that hardly anyone had replied - but I see things have taken off in the last couple of days!

Thank you all for posting. Eats, I admit I hadn't considered this issue from the POV of a mother who herself was sexually abused by a male caregiver in her childhood. I am lucky enough that this wasn't an issue that touched my life directly. However, both my parents are narcissists and caused enormous emotional abuse, which I am paying for dearly both in emotional and material terms ( I see a psychotherapist weekly which is helping me more than I can say but is the most painful thing I have ever done).

I cant' help but find it sad that all men who work with children are viewed with suspicion by some people. As a feminist, I try very hard not to put people into boxes based on their sex, gender, skin colour, religion etc and I do find the intense suspicion of men who spend lots of time around children disturbing. I don't have children (like you TiggyD I work with them) but I would like to think that if I did, and I was choosing a carer for my child, it would be the person's personality that would be the deciding factor for me, not their sex - it would come down to how comfortable I felt with that person

There have been female nursery workers I have met who rang serious alarm bells for me because they seemed cold, authoritarian, directive and not at all in tune with children. I currently work with two male nursery workers who are warm, friendly, chatty, enthusiastic, professional and seem to genuinely care for the children in their workplace. My personal view is that a person's biological sex is not a factor in how suitable they are to work with children, rather there are loads of other factors which should influence any decision about their suitability.

I do think however, that caring professions like nursery work/childminding will only gain status when men join in significant numbers. I'm not sure how we can speed that up with the way things are but I think it's an important issue.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

You are right that traditionally female occupations only gain status when men join in significant numbers. But as long as we have patriarchy, sadly looking after young children is always going to be a low status job.

[exoticfruits]

We speed things up by actually employing the best person for the job and not by thinking that a woman has to be the carer for a DD.

[FelicitywasSarca]

YY exotic, that and trying to stamp out prejudice in people's conversations. Just as it is now unnacceptable to publicly air racist opinions, so it should become about sexist/peodo hysteria ones.

[exoticfruits]

It should be unacceptable Felicity-I agree.

[HSMM]

My DH is a CM and (even if I say so myself) he is fab. The children love him and so do their parents. He does seem to have attracted more families with sons than daughters though ...

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

kim I think it was reasonable to ask that man to move seat in a plane. Nobody knew he was, and why should the employees put a child at an increased risk when it was easy to ask the man to sit elsewhere?

[FelicitywasSarca]

Eats are you joking?

Surely you are just on a wind up now?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

No not joking at all. Asking that man to move seat caused him no issues and potentially protected a child. A perfectly reasonable request. Safeguarding children should come before safeguarding a mans hurt feelings

[FelicitywasSarca]

It publicly humiliated him.

Accused him of being a pedophile

AND protected no one as women are equally capable of crime in the same situation.

Kids will grow up in a very odd world if they are never allowed to interact with men.

Treating 50% of the population as criminals 'just in case' is hysteria.

[FelicitywasSarca]

Safeguarding children should not result in isolating them from all men.

That will do nothing to protect them and hurt social development to boot.

[rosabud]

Eats

So by the same logic that some men could possibly turn out to be child abusers so we had best protect all children from the risk by simply barring men from child care jobs and seats on planes next to children, would you also:

1. Stop children from attending cubs/scouts groups where men are leaders? Oh dear - rather a lot of those closing down then.
   

1. Stop children form playing at all mini-league football clubs where men are coaches - oh going to be fewer kids on the pitches every weekend by the looks of it.
   

1. Stop children being attended to by male doctors - oops, just lost half the country's medical professionals - or is this one OK because it's a high status postition and a necessary part of life so worth the risk?
   

Honestly, how utterly ridiculous and offensive your posts have been. I do hope that no potentially great male childcarers/ teachers/ nursery nurses have been put off by them.

Oh, and I once went to a fantastic young kids' story time at my local library hosted by .......... two male librarians!!! AAAAHHHHH - oh no!!!! The risk, the risk!!!!!!!!

[madwomanintheattic]

Eats, I think this says more about your own past, and current projections, than it does about any feminist view of the world.

Which is kinda sad, because there's (as up thread) a lot of folk who admire your general feminist principles. This just smacks of man-hating stereotype, now, and needs to be divorced from the feminist viewpoint, before once again the 'all feminists are man-haters' stuff starts up again.

[LurkingAndLearningLovesOrange]

Eats you know I LoveAdoreWorship really respect you, but the plane thing was really wrong. He didn't deserve to be publicly humiliated and essentially accused of being a paedophile.

A plane is hardly the place predators will be seeking out victims. Unaccompanied minors are watched like a hawk by the flight attendants and I don't think you have any idea who you'll be placed next too.

It was an hysterical reaction. I would need bloody therapy if something like that happened to me. I hope he's alright.

[sashh]

Eats

Don't fathers have any role/say in childccare then? Just mothers.

BTW 100% of rapes are comitted by men, so should we ban all men from public places? Actually many rapes take place in people's homes, so lets ban them from there as well.

Oh and when researchers asked paedophiles where the best place to find a child to abuse was, they said estate agents and kitchen showrooms, combination of bored child wandering off and distracted parents. They didn't mention nurseries.

[exoticfruits]

I would be very angry if I was a man and had my seat moved because I 'posed a danger' sitting next to a child - a completely hysterical reaction. What exactly is is going to manage to do on a public plane seat with parents nearby, flight attendants and a third person in the row? The mind boggles.

[getmorenappies]

kim I think it was reasonable to ask that man to move seat in a plane. Nobody knew he was, and why should the employees put a child at an increased risk when it was easy to ask the man to sit elsewhere?

Dear God. Attitudes like this have no place in a modern society.