What ordinary things make you feel positive about feminism?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I hope it's ok to start this thread - I wanted to because I was thinking a lot about violence and rape and all the awful things that happen, and frankly, I would like to think about some of the positive stuff too. I'd like to remind myself of the dads and sons and brothers and male friends we've got who do 'get' feminism, and the women we know who 'get' feminism and use it to make other people's lives better - it's not always a pitched battle or a lonely thing.

So, I want to know, who are the ordinary people in your life who make you feel proud to be a feminist (they don't have to be perfect!), and what ordinary things do you do, that you're proud of, that you do because you're a feminist?

I'll kick off: my baby niece makes me so proud to be a feminist. She is wonderful and gorgeous and clever (naturally ... she is not much over a year old ). But what makes me feel really proud of feminism is that she's growing up as the apple of her parents' eyes and the whole family thinks she is wonderful and can do anything - that's something we ought to be able to take for granted but women didn't used to be able to, and women in other part of the world can't.

And my brother makes me feel proud to be a feminist, because without feminism, I don't think he would have been able to take on the role he does as easily as he does, and he is really working hard (I know it's hard, he and his wife say so) to share the parenting.

For me, ordinary things I feel proud of - I've not completely managed to buy all books by women this year, but the majority of the books I've bought have been books by women, and I like this as a little feminist thing I can do.

What about you?

felicity - oddly, I think trendy young chains can the worst - I think sometimes they have the rudest waiters, anyway!

LRD ! Are you sure you're allowed to diss the suffragettes like EVER?! Isn't that against the basic fundamentals of Fem Code or somethng?! But yeah, I do think they were a tad classist, some more so than others.

My inner feminist says "Mess, the simple thing is to just use "woman" FGS!" But it feels a bit rude, a bit abrupt. If I were to say "woman" to someone I would feel like I'd be acting like a caveman dragging said person across the metaphorical cavefloor. Or singing Moby, in which case I would be howling. I also noticed that the Olympics presenters almost never said "woman" in the singular, but did say "women" a lot.

Why is that? What is not ok about using "woman"?

DH and I are out hot a meal tomorrow night Felicity, I'm going to have to make sure I pay now, just to see what happens. I am used to them bringing the bill to DH and the wine for tasting as I'm the one who pretends to know a bit about wine , but never what you described.

when out for a meal with the OH sometimes we decide that the 'mutual account' will get it
my wife has her own carreer and her own money, as i do, but when the mutual account gets it, the bill is useually is given to me, and to a lesser extent when she is paying it still sometimes comes to me, however ( and really you have to start looking out for this) i notice young waitresses/waiters are placing the bill in a sort of non discript area of the table , but slightly closer to who they think might be paying the bill.
i feel sorry for them actually walking this minefeild of politiacal correctness.
my OH couldnt care less and accuses me of over-analising, and actually having young kids we often end up walking to the till area to pay up because the kids are playing up.

Well, I am not a very good feminist and not very well read on the suffragettes, so probably no, you're not allowed to diss them!

I think if they were classist, they were of their time, too - it's not easy to break out of everything your society says.

I use 'woman' a lot, but only as a slightly jokey mock-insult ('don't be daft, woman!'). Maybe that's bad? I don't know.

I certainly don't like the way some men I know call their wives 'the woman' or 'my woman', somehow - but maybe that's because the men I'm thinking of are not the nicest and that's why I associate it with them being a bit sexist.

coffee - do it!

I've been doing it since we got married (it coincided with us getting fed up about this stuff) and it's fairly amusing as a bit of (very) low-level consciousness-raising.

Oh yes, the bringing of the wine to the man for tasting - that bloody well drives me nuts!

LRD No, 'gentlewoman' refers to the female of the species, so it doesn't mean the same as 'gentleman'. Even in Shakespeare.

ok, you have me there , i'll try to pay better attention in anatomy class in future

Messy, don't you get asked "who would like to taste it?" that is crap!

LRD, honey!! What do you mean you're not a good feminist?! That's like saying Hugh Heffner isn't a minging old perve! I will not have such negative self-talk, young lady!

messy , that drives me nuts too!, why would the waiter assume i would know anything about wine. i'm a builder and my wife is a graduate yet still the wine allways come to me , and .....and heres the really think bit, i like a couple of beers waiting for the food , and i like a glass of wine while eating, so, i'm asked to sample wine while i still have half a glass of hopps to swig!, and OH has water.

think=thick

Good lord, I was joking, I really hope you don't need to revise anything to understand that!

messy - oh, yes, the wine tasting. It annoys me less now I don't really drink, but FFS, all I am trying to do is see if it's corked. It does not require stunning expertise or man-parts, just a basic sense of smell.

How did wine tasting become such an odd ritual, anyway? It's not like anyone expects you to do a ritualized sniff of your pint before you sip ... they just assume if it's gone off, you'd go to the bar and say so, right?

messy, that may be the first time I've been flattered to have been involved in an analogy to Heff!

But thanks.

Glad I'm not the only one annoyed by the wine tasting.

Ennis, no, but age might have something to do with it. My very generous parents often take me out and it always gets plonked in front of my dad, who hasn't really got a clue but likes to make swishy noises and sniffy sounds.

When I'm with my girlfriends they do ask of course and usually person nearest waiter tastes it. In mixed groups own age groups, can't conclusively remember as probably already a bit drunk so will pay more attention next time.

While we're on drinks- an everyday benefit of feminism is that we don't feel we have to be "ladylike" and order a half if we happen to be thirsty. I've been drinking pints of ale most of my life and no one gives a damn- but my mother never does.

Just thought of something else.

A couple of weeks ago I was at (a bit younger) BF's house. He called out from the kitchen "you want wine or vodka Baby?"
His (much younger) housemate asked me "Baby? Sexist? Much? Why do you put up with that kind of language?"

lam - yep, my mum used to order two halves one after the other.

She has stopped doing this, and she did admit that it was partly from seeing me and women my age happily drinking pints. She'll now order a half if she wants it, but will happily drink a pint.

That's a nice, low-level change, I think.

Can I join in? I'm on paid maternity leave. Get a load of that. My mum was sacked for having me in the 70s and here I am, swanning around with rights and pay and stuff. It's a different world, even if there are improvements that could be made to the system.

Loads of people have asked me when I am going back to work. It is just assumed that I will, which is ace.

Oh, good point!

Hope your leave is going well, btw.

It's fab, thanks!

I could murder a pint, though.

I was a single parent for 6 years and the only person even slightly bothered by it was my elderly grandma, and even then it was because she was very jealous that I had the opportunity to go to university that she never had and she thought I was giving that up to have children. She was thrilled to bits as soon as I explained that I could do both, it was so completely different to when she was younger.

My other grandma had to leave teaching when she got married! It was a job she loved but it was illegal to be a female married teacher at the time. I am now a teacher and I would never have even considered that I should give up when I got married (not that I am, I proudly co-habit which was never really an option even for my parents).

I have 2 children and a full time job. I earn twice as much as dp does and nobody thinks this is weird. We share the childcare and housework 50/50 (no we don't, he does most of it because I'm a slob ) and again this is just what we both expected to happen.

open - de-alc beer?

(I am an evangelist for de-alc beer, I've got a bit of a thing for it).

Hope it continues to be fab!

jodidi - aww, that's very nice with your gran being thrilled after she realized.