What ordinary things make you feel positive about feminism?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I hope it's ok to start this thread - I wanted to because I was thinking a lot about violence and rape and all the awful things that happen, and frankly, I would like to think about some of the positive stuff too. I'd like to remind myself of the dads and sons and brothers and male friends we've got who do 'get' feminism, and the women we know who 'get' feminism and use it to make other people's lives better - it's not always a pitched battle or a lonely thing.

So, I want to know, who are the ordinary people in your life who make you feel proud to be a feminist (they don't have to be perfect!), and what ordinary things do you do, that you're proud of, that you do because you're a feminist?

I'll kick off: my baby niece makes me so proud to be a feminist. She is wonderful and gorgeous and clever (naturally ... she is not much over a year old ). But what makes me feel really proud of feminism is that she's growing up as the apple of her parents' eyes and the whole family thinks she is wonderful and can do anything - that's something we ought to be able to take for granted but women didn't used to be able to, and women in other part of the world can't.

And my brother makes me feel proud to be a feminist, because without feminism, I don't think he would have been able to take on the role he does as easily as he does, and he is really working hard (I know it's hard, he and his wife say so) to share the parenting.

For me, ordinary things I feel proud of - I've not completely managed to buy all books by women this year, but the majority of the books I've bought have been books by women, and I like this as a little feminist thing I can do.

What about you?

My dad makes me happy to be a feminist. He is 64 years old and for as long as I can remember, he always took an equal role in the housework/childcare department. He would often cook dinner/look after us while mum was at work etc. He is always saying how proud he is to have raised two strong women.

I am a single parent and noone gives two hoots. In fact, I receive far more praise than criticism for raising DD alone.

When my bastard ex hit me, I upped and left. I know it is not easy for many, and I'm not criticizing those who don't leave, but I knew immediately that it was not my fault, that I was not inadequate in any way, and that I deserved better.

I would thank three great female managers I've had in my life.

They have empowered a lot of women (and men tbf), been flexible and understanding around childcare issues, and made great managers and mentors.

I'd also give my General Manager a huge hug - last week he complained to the board that there were not enough females in Senior management positions and insisted on HR widening the recruitment search and focussing on different skill sets for a more balanced team.

This thread is making me happy, but I'm horrified at you being caned sashh.

Very small in the grand scheme of things, but DD always refers to her soft toys as 'she'.

This thread prompted me to ask my DS2 (8) if he thought that women and men had to do different jobs, or if men had to be the boss. He looked at me like I was totally mental!

The poster who mentioned Spartacus - in the next series, one of the characters who had been raped, trains hard and becomes a fierce warrior who gets he revenge BIG TIME on those who had wronged her!

vanessa - that sort of stuff is great, isn't it? I liked when a mate of mine (who I don't think of as that into feminism) had a big rant about Shades of Grey recently.

felicity - that is awesome ... see, I love that my brother does a lot of the childcare but I want him (and more importantly, my dad! ) to see that that is normal and fine ... the more it happens, the better!

bitter - but it's not small! This is why I started this thread - I wanted to think about the things that seem small and ordinary, and the things that absolutely should be normal and unremarkable. Because I think it helps me remember what little changes we can do that make a difference, you know?

paula - your DS2 sounds wonderful.

Another small and ordinary positive today was chatting to one of the kids I tutor, who's quite nervous about school starting up in a few weeks - she's been getting on better and better with her writing and she says she's less scared to go back because she has more to say now.

I think that's nice, because she is feeling good about being more successful at a school subject - there's no suggestion she might get teased for being too clever - and that is very different from when some of us were at school, I am sure.

sashh I can't believe your mate said that!

He had a swift lecture about the equal pay act and the sex discimination act. But these were passed before he was born.

BertieBotts
"I've started consciously listening to music by women and making women-only playlists, and I find the music empowering. I like male artists too! But I found that without thinking too much about it they were dominating my music collection."

Just as well you don't racially 'empower' your playlist too.

Justifying that would be quite tricky.

Eh?

What would be wrong with that? If you wanted to learn more about Chinese music you'd listen to, um, Chinese music, right?

How is that tricky to justify?

Just like I am interested in how songs written for boys' voices sound when sung by women.

It's not offensive as long as I don't start being rude about boys' choirs or any music except Chinese music, surely?

I wonder how a black person would feel about the following statement:

'I've started consciously listening to music by white people and making white people-only playlists, and I find the music empowering. I like black artists too! But I found that without thinking too much about it they were dominating my music collection.'

And what would be said to the white person making that statement.

But that's the opposite situation, uppercut. There's a big difference between reinforcing the privilege of a dominant culture or group, and trying to learn more about or focus more on a marginalised or discriminated-against group.

To me, music by white people is very widely available. I would have to work harder to access music from China, and I feel ignorant for not knowing more about it. Likewise, most of the music I hear by default - eg., by turning on the radio or picking CDs at random in the music shop - is by men, so I have to work that bit harder to choose music by women.

What is wrong with that?

I'm white, and I hope what I'm saying isn't offensive to anyone - I apologize if it is.

Or perhaps the reaction this would get on MN...

'I've started consciously listening to music by men and making men-only playlists, and I find the music empowering. I like female artists too! But I found that without thinking too much about it they were dominating my music collection.'

Uppercut, you are not listening to me - it's not the same.

Men are the dominant group. There is a difference between trying to get better access to a marginalized group, and reinforcing dominance.

Oh, I see... 'discrimination is discrimation except when I'm discriminating against you.'.

If you've ever wondered why feminism isn't taken as seriously as it perhaps should be, it's because it frequently adopts the exact same tactics (excuses?) as its oppressers. This is simply hypocrisy and reduces feminism to a competing faction, not a moral cause.

Inb4 someone says 'what about the menzzzz....', the equivalent of sticking there fingers in their ears and humming loudly.

"...their fingers..."

So is it discrimination for someone to like (say) French music?

Eh?

No, that makes no sense, uppercut. This isn't about me personally - being white, I'm very well aware I'm privileged in lots of ways.

Feminism doesn't use the same tactics as its accusers at all. The whole point is that feminists recognize that discrimination exists, and that some people have more privilege than others. It's important to fight against that. You are saying, no, don't bother to fight discrimination, let's maintain the status quo that discriminates against women and non-white people. Why?

Why do you think women and non-white people do not deserve an end to discrimination?

Actually I didn't say any of that.

I simply said your discrimination is morally no better than anyone else's.

Why not?

My discrimination is in favour of women, it's an attempt to reverse their marginalization.

Why is it morally no better to try to reverse discrimination, than to enforce it?

That doesn't really follow, I think.

I'm wondering what you think to SPB's point, too.

Discrimination creates victims, not equality; what you give you will receive in kind.

You seem ideologically incapable of recognizing the double-standard in your discriminatory principles and the obvious consequences, making further debate pointless.

You do not know a lot about discrimination do you?

uppercut, we're trying to reverse discrimination. Do you not understand that?

Would it maybe be ok to go back to the topic of the thread, which was things that make you feel positive about feminism? I think otherwise we're going to go round in circles.

So, by listening to women only playlists, we're discriminating against men?

HAHAHAHA!

How do you discriminate against the sector which holds power?

Sorry, LRD. Will come back to this when I've stopped laughing.

You're fine!

Actually that bit of laughing is now chalked up as another thing that makes me proud to be a feminist.

I just thought, d'you think we should boycott MN until Justine enforces a decent 50/50 male/female ratio?

You know what? It's a weird one, but:

The fact we scared the shit out of F4J enough for them to launch their hate campaign... The fact their campaign wouldn't have started were it not for them feeling intimidated by women... And I've probably worded that completely wrong...

But to me, it showed that they were, as much as they'd hate to admit it, taking notice of women.