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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Positives and negatives of the Olympics.

438 replies

kickassangel · 29/07/2012 16:02

Hopefully a fairly light hearted thread but thought we could keep a tally of the plus and minus sides of the Olympics.

Plus
Women from Saudi, and more women from other Middle Eastern States.
Women included in the military flag bearers
Future sports people fairly even m/f balance (and their sponsors)

Minus
Still more events for men than women
Still more men taking part, and given better status/accommodations etc
Women carrying the country names, and the bowl things during the parade.
Mainly women nurses with the children on beds.
Paul McCartney getting the 'men' to sing first and the 'girls' to have a go second.

I was hoping that I'd noticed some more positives, but apparently not.

What did other people notice?

OP posts:
grimbletart · 31/07/2012 15:09

Indeed Messy. What a great and unexpected win for the women's volleyball team last night against Algeria. GB has no funding, practices in an empty fire station building and has to raise money to compete yet put out a team ranked umpteen above them in the 5th set, finishing at 12.40am!

grimbletart · 31/07/2012 15:10

'practises' ffs - I'm not American!!!!

EdithWeston · 31/07/2012 16:00

Thanks for the link about the septuagenarian from Japan: there are amazing individuals in the Games - his Olympic debut was in 1964!

I've just been please to note, at the Eventing medals ceremony, that all competitors are given little flowery posies.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 31/07/2012 17:02

Mother presenting medal to daughter at the Eventing Smile

itsatiggerday · 31/07/2012 17:35

Re the sparkliness of the outfits, I'm just watching the women's artistic gymnastics and was thinking how great it is to have women's bodies celebrated for what they can do rather than some arbitrary standard of beauty. There's been hardly a comment about shapes / sizes but lots about power, energy, gracefulness in dance, agility, core strength etc. Is it bad that women's bodies are displayed when those are aspects of them that are admired and focused on? With the men's gymnastics, their strength tends to be the main focus, and they do display their pecs / biceps to good effect to maximise on this too...

Re the hair and makeup, I'm guessing the hair is necessary so you can be sure it won't come down and get in the way and since they're under bright lights and on TV, the makeup is probably to stop them thinking how ill they look when they see themselves on playback? I don't really wear make up but I think I would in their situation.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 31/07/2012 18:03

I agree, it's lovely to see strong women's bodies celebrated. I was really interested to see how different the bodies of women gymnasts were - obviously within a narrow range, but still quite a lot of differences.

I get the hair being tied back ... I still do think the makeup is, well, a feministy negative point, but FFS, they should do whatever makes them feel best so it's not a big one!

rosy71 · 31/07/2012 18:53

Ds1 (7) says the (female) gymnasts are "awesome" and has been doing roly-polies (sp??) across the rug in an attempt to copy them!

Original poster
kickassangel · 31/07/2012 19:17

I keep going on about this book, but have just been reading 'The Frailty Myth' which comments on how women are described during sporting events. There certainly seems to have been an improvement since it was published in 2002

OP posts:
LeeCoakley · 31/07/2012 19:21

The camera crew couldn't stop themselves zooming in on the women's bottoms in today's Beach Volleyball! I must check to see if they do the same amount of arseshooting in the men's event. Grin

Original poster
kickassangel · 31/07/2012 20:53

Well someone has to check these things. Grin

I kind of agree that looking at the human body when assessing strength/skill etc is not a problem for me. But then I think about looking at it for sexual titillation and wonder what is/isn't appropriate. I mean, almost everyone likes to look at people they find attractive don't they? So where does 'he's good looking, with a nice set of muscles' cross the line into unacceptable? (OK this is a tangent, I know). After all, I might like to watch a sport to see the achievements of the athletes. I might also like seeing them flex their muscles etc. I'm not looking at them JUST for a quick leer, but I can't just switch off that reaction in me. I definitely have a problem with camera shots that obviously show a 'sexy' shot at the expense of seeing their sporting abilities (bum shots, boob shots). So, is it OK to see a top half shot & think 'thwoar' or not?

And is it just me that thinks that cricket seems to have an awful lot of groin shots? Not just to show them rubbing the ball.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 31/07/2012 20:57

Actually, I think this is not long-term terribly wonderful, but it is interesting that during the olympics we see loads of men in scanty clothes who're young and physically fit.

messy said upthread that seeing all the women's sport was making her feel like men must feel all the time ... is it awful to say that seeing the men like this must be a little like what men feel like all the time?

messyisthenewtidy · 31/07/2012 21:56

Woohoo! Beat the Brazilians at women's football! Am having an Olympic moment....

kick: I think, yeah, it's fine to admire all the yummy physical attributes of the men/women, but it's just all about balance, isn't it? I mean I'd be a robot if I didn't feel a bit warm and fuzzy watching Chad le Clos getting out the water, but I'm not expecting a huge Chippendale like procession of men wiggling about to Benny Hill for my titillation a la women's beach volleyball!

And I'm definitely more about admiring them for their skill not their pecks. Actually mainly, I just wanna give Chad's dad a big cuddle! Did you see him? He was so sweet going on "there's my beautiful boy!" Ah....

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 31/07/2012 22:03

Yay football!

Original poster
kickassangel · 01/08/2012 02:50

The US team is more females than males. First time in history.

OP posts:
Alibabaandthe40nappies · 01/08/2012 07:19

I do think that part of it is a younger generation of commentator.

Matt Baker, Clare Balding and Jake Humphries spring to mind immediately - their commentary is very asexual, if they weren't using gender specific pronouns then you would hardly know which sex they were talking about.

I also liked the fact that they had women experts talking about the women's football in the studio last night, rather than getting in the usual BBC male football pundits.

Trills · 01/08/2012 08:53

The male gymnasts had much more done hair than the men in most sports.

The female gymnasts were quite glittery, but on the bouncy floor (whatever it's called) I was busy thinking look at her thighs!

Trills · 01/08/2012 08:53

(because they were so defined and muscled and not thinner-than-their-knees like some women in magazines)

ninjasquirrel · 01/08/2012 09:25

I am not at all a sport-watching person, but I so enjoyed watching the women's football last night - not just because they beat Brazil but also it's lovely to see an image of women being strong and working as a team!

messyisthenewtidy · 01/08/2012 11:59

Wooohooo!! The first gold!!

HipHopSkipJumpomous · 01/08/2012 12:01

Yes women get the first GOLD!!!! Fantastic. Apart from the Eventers (mixed team) all medals to date are from women aren't they? I'm just loving seeing so may sportswomen on the telly all the time.

HipHopSkipJumpomous · 01/08/2012 12:02

GB medals obviously.

RumbleGreen · 01/08/2012 12:05

No men's gymnastics have also won a medel so almost hiphop

Treats · 01/08/2012 12:09

I'm really enjoying the women's football - especially last night's match against Brazil. I really hope it's the start of a higher profile for women's football in this country - a bit more television coverage. I don't see why they can't shoehorn a 'best of the women's league' match highlights onto the end of the MOTD coverage, or feature one of the women's matches on the weekly 5Live coverage. There's all sorts of shit talked about how women's football isn't as interesting or that people just don't want to watch it. I think the Olympics is proving them all wrong.

Here's a classic bit of sexism to make you all Shock though. The England women's football team qualified automatically for the football tournament in Beijing (by being runners up in the European Championship I think?) but weren't allowed to play because the FA didn't want to set a precedent of creating a GB team. So, not only do the men's FA not support women's football, or share the airtime or the sponsorship, they also prevent them from playing in tournaments when it doesn't suit the mens' game.

The women are only allowed to play in this Olympics at all because it suited the men's agenda to field a GB team now that we're hosts. I am happy to see that the women have so far outshined their male counterparts in every way!

messyisthenewtidy · 01/08/2012 12:10

I'm just happy it's such a mixture of men and women and it's awesome to see her regiment really supporting her. It's just great to see men supporting women and vice versa. That's what it should be like all the time.

messyisthenewtidy · 01/08/2012 12:15

Treats - don't ruin my high! Grin

I seem to remember reading that last time the women's football drew such a crowd (about 50,000 I think) back in the 1920s or something, the FA responded by banning women's football giving the pathetic excuse that it was unladylike and not good for their reproductive organs.

Still, they're back on track now - hopefully the Olympics will change that. I'm certainly up for becoming a women's football fan now I've seen it proper..