Positives and negatives of the Olympics.

[kickassangel]

Hopefully a fairly light hearted thread but thought we could keep a tally of the plus and minus sides of the Olympics.

Plus
Women from Saudi, and more women from other Middle Eastern States.
Women included in the military flag bearers
Future sports people fairly even m/f balance (and their sponsors)

Minus
Still more events for men than women
Still more men taking part, and given better status/accommodations etc
Women carrying the country names, and the bowl things during the parade.
Mainly women nurses with the children on beds.
Paul McCartney getting the 'men' to sing first and the 'girls' to have a go second.

I was hoping that I'd noticed some more positives, but apparently not.

What did other people notice?

I'm not so sure the beach women were unwise to play in skimpy stuff. I was a fairly meh about the entire sport, but seeing some of both men and women games you can see why the less clothes the better for both sexes. And I'm not seeing much difference between their attire and that of the track athletes.

www.makeupforever.com/360-pro/aquatic-ballet.html,9,3,0,0,13#.UBWby7R8Cb8
If it works for swimmers, it'll work for sweaty gymnasts.

Loving the flurry of makeup recs on Feminism.

Still seems odd to me, but each to their own I suppose.

Gymnatsics seems very sparkly.

It is, isn't it? Are the men sparkly too, I've not seen any?

It is rather nice the way the American women all go and air-kiss each other at the ends of things, and the others hug. Especially when some of them are 15/16 and there's that teen-girl stereotype of 'mean girls'.

I was thinking that too - they are all so sweet and small and huggy and like a happy family.

I've been watching both the men's and women's artistic gymnastics - the women all seem to wear shiny and/or sparkly leotards but I haven't seen any men wearing anything sparkly. For male gymnasts, their outfits were just clothes to wear while performing their sport; for female gymnasts the appearance of the leotard and hair/facial grooming almost seemed to be part of the act.

The contrast between the men's beach volleyball costumes (baggy knee length shorts and baggy tops) and the women's costumes is ridiculous.

During the opening ceremony, the suffragettes (and Mary Poppinses!) were great. However, the actors depicting workers in the industrial revolution looked to be overwhelmingly men, when in reality significant numbers of factory workers at that time were women and children. The second table on this page says 56.8% of factory workers in 1833 were female. Though I suppose the ceremony organisers might argue that they were focussing on the metal industry, which would have had far fewer women workers than (say) the cotton industry.

I rather enjoyed watching the women's synchronised diving this afternoon, with informative and respectful commentary from Leon Taylor. Beth Tweddle is almost always a joy to watch on the bars - I saw her qualifying routine.

Re: gym leotards - wait until you see the rhythmic gymnasts' outfits. DD is a rhythmic gymnast and there are some shockers, even at junior level. There are some people within the sport who want to go back to simple leotards in team colours, but commercial forces (TV/advertising pressure for high level, leo manufacturers themselves for junior/club level) aren't having it.

DH and I were discussing the contrast between the men's and women's beach volleyball attire last night realistically, when you're dealing with sand either loose baggy clothing (so the sand falls out again once it gets in) or minimal skintight clothing (so the sand doesn't get in in the first place) are good options. And I can see that each sex's attire is a logical development of what that sex generally wears on a beach in the circumstances in which beach volleyball evolved so to a great extent is the "fault" of attitudes to appropriate beach attire rather than of the sport itself. If it had sprung up somewhere where men typically wear budgie-smugglers then it might all look far more equitable.

Melpomene there were loads of women in that section when you saw the close up shots.

I thought the suffragettes were great, and I think the fact that all countries have female competitors for the first time is fantastic.

Hated that Gary Lineaker spoke first when the BBC opened the coverage. Sue Barker does much more general sports presenting than he does, he mostly does the football and I think it is rude that he was given president.

Blimey - precedent.

yes, Casey, I'd rather much more invest in the competitor's choice of what to wear, than a fear of some people's judgement of it. The women on one team last night were wearing leggings and a t-shirt - their opponents where in bikini-style. Little chance of sand-intruding either way.

When the Saudi team marched out at the OC, the women were at the back, walking behind the men!

I thought including the suffragettes was good, I could forgive the mainly male entertainment after that. Love the 'new' female competitors but I thought there was still some controversy over wearing headscarves whilst competing. I hope that's not going to become an issue and overshadow the groundbreaking debuts. What I would really like is the shooting and archery to be mixed like equestrian events are. Is there any reason for there to be separate men's and women's events in these sports?

Dd2 just commented that was the reason netball wasn't an Olympic sport because it was mainly known as a sport for women? I said I didn't know the answer to that!

I didn't like the all-female country name carriers. They looked like they were in the stocks in those contraptions! The pot carriers were mixed iirc.

'When the Saudi team marched out at the OC, the women were at the back, walking behind the men!'

Sometimes, this place is utterly unbelievable.

Saudi Arabia? Well, yes, it is, but I suppose it's great they were there at all!

The look in that woman's eyes when the camera did a close-up was wonderful.

LeeCoakley, I was just about to post about headscarves.

One of the Saudi women, Wujdan Shahrkhani, may not be able to compete in her sport, judo, if she can't wear a headscarf.

I'm not sure whether it's her that insists on wearing it, or the Saudi Gov't.

I thought the inclusion of the Suffragettes was great. The fact that every country has female competitors is also great. I have noticed that female athletes have been very prominent and, of course, our 2 medal winners so far have been women.

What I would really like is the shooting and archery to be mixed like equestrian events are. Is there any reason for there to be separate men's and women's events in these sports? I was wondering this today.

Dd2 just commented that was the reason netball wasn't an Olympic sport because it was mainly known as a sport for women? I said I didn't know the answer to that! Interesting idea. I wonder if it's the case. After all, there are a lot of less well known team games (imo), such as handball, included.

I would love to know the story of those Saudi women - how on earth they have managed to achieve getting to the Olympics. The prejudice they must have got over to even be allowed to do the sport, let alone fly to the UK to compete.

Sometimes, this place is utterly unbelievable. Why's that, namechangeguy?

I think it's pretty sad to feel grateful that they're there at all!

If they get shoved to the back and one may not even be able to compete, how is that any more than minimal progress?

kickassangel, one of the Saudi women is US born and bred, her father is from SA, iirc.

Good on her. She presumably could have competed with the USA - it must be a big thing to compete with SA, she's very brave.

I read namechange as being incredulous about SA, not us, lemon - at least I think so?

I don't think she could - both the Saudi women are competing under the whatever-it's-called provision that lets the IOC waive normal qualification standards to encourage representation from countries that otherwise wouldn't get to participate. AFAIK Sarah Attar is a good-but-not-outstanding college athlete who wouldn't ever have come close to qualifying for the USA. It doesn't mean that she's not brave, of course - going from being an anonymous American college sophomore to being the focus of massive international interest, including from factions who violently disagree with what you are doing, is a big deal whichever way you look at it.