The Alpha-Parent's latest breastfeeding missive

[WidowWadman]

What a lot of patronising tosh. So she says

" obscures the fact that formula feeding is a deviation from the norm.
contributes to the illusion that breast milk and formula are on an even keel.
weakens legal protection for breastfeeding ('choices' are weaker than 'rights').
fuels Mother Vs Mother dialogue ('The Mommy Wars').
relieves formula companies, health professionals and poor support systems of their responsibility (instead all responsibility is placed on the choice-maker).
discourages individual social responsibility.
sees women as weak and unable to field criticism.
shuts down debate, discussion, activism and progress."

In what way is saying "unless you're doing it my way you're doing it wrong" not fuelling the "mommy wars"?
In what way does she not see "women as weak and unable to field criticism?" After all tons of criticism is heaped on women no matter how they choose to feed their babies.

I've fed my first child for a year and a half, and the second is going that way too. I feel quite embarassed that anyone could mistake my long term breastfeeding for agreement with the above illiberal and misconceived shite.

But Empusa have you not already said that your choice was to bf but couldn't because of the difficulties involved? So you intended to bf because (I'm assuming) you knew about the benefits of bf and did not see ff as a choice?

So I personally read "Their argument is that it is love that counts in infant feeding and care, not what goes into the baby. We see how ludicrous this displacement strategy is when we consider how we would we feel if the tobacco industry used the same argument: "It doesn't matter if you smoke in front of your baby, as long as you love them"." as her expressing her opinion that we have a massive amount of support for people giving up smoking in pregnancy and advertising campaigns about not smoking near children etc but we have a notoriously bad support system and awareness of the benefits of bf. I don't think she wants to say all people who ff are as 'bad' as people who smoke around their children, but that both are 'choices' with health issues associated with them. Why are we as a society perfectly accepting of the choice to ff (again I know that a lot of people do not have that choice down to personal circumstances) yet we don't have the same accepting attitude towards smoking around dcs? Is it because once the decision has been made to ff (or you have been forced into it) there is no way to reverse that decision?

And I do think it's a feminist point that she's making. The reasons we have become socialised away from breastfeeding are nothing to do with what's best for baby or making life easier for women - it's all to do with what's best for men. Women hand their babies over to someone else to do the feeding (whether wet-nurse of ff), purely so that men can get their perky-breasted wives back ready for some more breeding - or get them back into the workplace, to keep feeding the machine.

Empusa - I don't think she's belittling women who FF. I think she's saying that the "it doesn't matter how you feed your child as long as you love them" argument is false. Parents do all sorts of harmful things to their children and still love them - it doesn't counteract the impact of the harmful decisions they make. She's overstating the case by a large degree to equate the harmfulness of smoking with the 'harm' of FF - but it's still valid point.

Totally agree with you Good, excellent post.

I do think she is making a lot if women feel shit about themselves to make her point and I don't think that is a particularly feminist (or nice) thing to do.

Had a quick look. Those twee pictures were a bit pathetic. Alpha-parent?? What next. Agree that the whole layout is just too irritating to be useful.

At the risk of upsetting you CrackFox - which I don't mean to do - how YOU feel about feeding your baby is nobody's else's business. You fed your baby the way you chose to/ had to/ wanted to and you have your reasons why you did that. Which was absolutely and entirely up to you.

You have that right. And AlphaParent has the right to express her opinion about how society at large impacts the choices women make regarding feeding. She isn't MAKING you feel anything - you're choosing to react in your own way to what she says.

It ought to be possible to debate the facts around bfing without people trying to close down the argument on the basis that people might find it upsetting.

It's impossible to debate breastfeeding on a mothers' forum without people getting upset or taking offence. It's such a personal issue. But if we want to be better informed and get better information out there - which IS a feminist thing to do - we have to be able to confront the issues without taking them personally.

What a pile of shit. Most women don't breastfeed because no-one ever tells us beforehand that it's not like turning on a bloody tap! It's a lost skill (because we don't see women around us all the time feeding on demand) and it's bloody hard to learn when we are exhausted, anxious and in pain after giving birth. No-one tells you about the agonies of mastitis, blocked ducts and nipple thrush, or how the hell to latch the baby on when your boobs are bigger than your baby's head, and your nips are bigger than the poor little buggers mouth.

I was lucky. 16 years ago we still had breast-feeding councillors in the maternity unit in the Royal Free, who were willing to spend hours with new mothers. There was a weekly drop-in breast feeding support group at the hospital too. I gather these services have now been axed. In spite of a dreadful time for the first few weeks, I was able to persevere thanks to the support I received (and a great mum who fed DB and I) and fed DS for 19 months - very unusual back then.

I didn't choose to FF DS. I wanted to BF him, but couldn't. Won't bore you with the full story, but he ended up on (mostly) expressed breastmilk until he was able to move around the floor, and FF after that. Not ideal, but better than starving him until he was weaned.

And having read this article, there's a great deal about breast feeding being better than formula - and I agree that breast milk is best - but she's focussing entirely on the idea that a mother using formula is doing so because she has chosen to reject breastfeeding.

She seems to be ignoring the notion that some FF babies have mothers who wanted to breastfeed, and ended up using formula because they couldn't establish breastfeeding. Some acknowledgment of this would be nice.

Instead she says:

^"Common reasons women give for rejecting breastfeeding include:
they don't want their breasts to sag.
they see breasts as exclusively sexual.
their husband is uncomfortable with breastfeeding.
they are uncomfortable with breastfeeding.
they don't want to breastfeed in public.
they want to 'get their body back'."^

Thanks for that. I'm sure I'm not the only woman who doesn't fall into one of the above categories.

The reasons we have become socialised away from breastfeeding are nothing to do with what's best for baby or making life easier for women - it's all to do with what's best for men. Women hand their babies over to someone else to do the feeding (whether wet-nurse of ff), purely so that men can get their perky-breasted wives back ready for some more breeding - or get them back into the workplace, to keep feeding the machine.

Pat Either she is ignoring the fact that a lot of babies are fed formula through necessity, or you are ignoring a couple of key words in her article "Common reasons women give for rejecting breastfeeding include:". That does not mean that all women who ff chose not to bf. She just happens to be discussing women that have made that choice as a choice rather than absolutely everything to do with the bf/ff debate in this one article. I suppose it's a matter of perspective and individual's personal history as to how you read it.

Of course formula has it's place in the world, it would be horrific for babies to die because it was not around. It isn't as good as breast milk though (I have a massive amount of admiration for people that choose to express rather than ff btw as it seems to be the worst of both worlds from the outside looking in) and atm a lot of society do seem to think there isn't much difference between them (at best, at worst women are belittled for continuing to bf longer than the 'norm' so the belittling works both ways ime)

I do agree that she has an inflammatory style of writing, but can't that be said for a lot of feminist bloggers too? How else are you supposed to get people talking about the issues that you are passionate about? Calm posts discussing both sides of an argument (not sure that's the right word) rarely get as much attention in the media/forums.

Thanks for your concern treats but I feel completely fine about FF DS1.

But realistically what is she going to achieve with article? Is the head of Nestle going to think "you know what, this is morally reprehensible and we will stop making it" or more likely make a lot of women feel even shitter about their "choice"?

Certainly most women start off breastfeeding (in the uk) but have stooped by 6 weeks. Is this because they are worried about saggy tits or is something else going on? All new mums have got the message that "breast is best".

What is never discussed is some women don't bloody like it.

Maybe I'm a bit oversensitive because I couldn't manage to get breastfeeding established. And I absolutely agree that breastmilk is better than formula for babies.

I also agree that an inflammatory style of writing will provoke more debate - but I do still think that an acknowledgement of the fact that not all mothers succeed in their attempt to breastfeed (and therefore reluctantly switch to formula) could have been included without detracting from the points she was making in the blog.

Ignoring this completely just makes it easy for people to say that she's just trying to make mothers of FF babies feel bad.

Treats - so what's wrong with "they want to 'get their body back'."

I've been breastfeeding my second child for the past 14 months and I'm more than tired of it, I'd wean in an instant if I knew how to do that without hours of howling. I'm sick of a toddler pulling at my breasts, diving for them, occasionally biting me, the demand demand demand for me. I love her dearly, but it's fucking hard, and I'm not sure how robust some of the evidence behind the benefits of breastfeeding compared to formula feeding is in a first world context.

I started out of convenience (and cheapskateness) and once established, in my experience, weaning is more difficult than continuing, but it means dealing with mental and physical exhaustion, which you're then not even allowed to voice, because it gets in the way of all the rose-tinted bollocks that is spouted around it.

I'm tired of the hormonal effects of lactation (e.g. reduced lubrication), too.

I don't want my body back to satisfy anyone else's desires, but my own. Not because patriarchy tells me that my body is needed for others, but because I'd just love to spend an evening not cuddling anyone, and not have anyone, sucking at my breast.

/rant

*>>The reasons we have become socialised away from breastfeeding are nothing to do with what's best for baby or making life easier for women - it's all to do with what's best for men. Women hand their babies over to someone else to do the feeding (whether wet-nurse of ff), purely so that men can get their perky-breasted wives back ready for some more breeding - or get them back into the workplace, to keep feeding the machine.

So what stopped the author from falling foul of all these socio-cultural pressures that the rest of us FF sheep blindly succumb to?

Oh of course, she's a much better parent than I am! That'll be it!

Widow I don't think there is anything wrong with "wanting to get your body back" but there probably are some background subconscious social influences going on too. I completely agree with you that once bf is established it is easier to continue than to wean, and am with you about being touched out and the hormonal influences of continued bf. I do think that if we as a society found it more normal for babies/toddlers to be bf then we would be more aware of what to expect when we do it ourselves. The pressure to conform to the "rose-tinted bollocks" wouldn't necessarily be there either if more people were bf older babies/toddlers as there would be more women experiencing the same thing so they could moan to each other (as we do about sleepless nights, potty training, toddler tantrums, etc) and people would hopefully not be as quick to question why you are continuing if you are struggling with some aspects. I certainly don't share the bits I'm struggling with (the same bit's you seem to find difficult) with people who already think I'm rather batty for continuing this long, but I do share my issues with online friends that are feeding toddler too.

"So what stopped the author from falling foul of all these socio-cultural pressures that the rest of us FF sheep blindly succumb to?

Oh of course, she's a much better parent than I am! That'll be it!"

Or possibly she had a different set of socio-cultural pressures? Surely it makes a difference what you individual families and upbringings were like as to what expectations you have for your life and children.

Ridiculous article. I think women should do what works best for them. Bf is scientifically better than ff but it's not always possible and the advantages can be outweighed by the disadvantages depending on the situation. It's all contextual. However, I do wish bf was more acceptable and that everyone at least tried it before deciding ff. Hoevever, not bf is not going to have any major detrimental effects obviously.

I always hate the concept that women are not able to make conscious decisions. We can make as conscious a decision as anyone else in the world if we bother to. It's about critical thinking and working out what is best for your situation, not someone telling you how you should think because they dont believe you are capable of thinking for yourself. How can it be feminist to make this insinuation?

I think wanting your own body back is perfectly rational. I didn't BF through choice and I firmly believe neither of my children have suffered as a result and I have kept my figure, my sanity and my sense of personhood. The idea of being a milking machine, on tap to the demands of a cling on for 24 hrs wasn't appealing.

What I find interesting is how societal expectations & pressures change to catch up with economic changes to the means of production. When women are called upon as cheap labour we drop the baby and buy formula, when we have higher unemployment, more technology which doesn't necessitate strength over brains, women are in competition to men for less work, we are told BF is best, so off you go, go feed your baby little women. I know it's natural and natural may equal best for baby but conception is natural and no one would dare to say women shouldn't have the right to abort an unwanted pregnancy. Should the child's needs trump the mother's? well in the case of FF v BF the benefits are negligible. It isn't life or death.

well in the case of FF v BF the benefits are negligible. It isn't life or death.
Are you sure mini? I was under the impression that along with parental smoking ff was one of the biggest factors in sids, so for some babies yes it is life or death. I really can't agree that the benefits of bf are negligible when the scientific consensus is that there are very large benefits to bf. I'm glad you are happy with your choice to ff, as I am happy with my choice to bf, and I kept my figure (such as it ever was), my sanity and my sense of personhood too.

Eclectic are you saying that you think there is no social conditioning at all? I'm sure I have read feminists argue that women are socially conditioned by the patriarchy into doing a variety of things. Surely if some women are affected by societal expectations about make-up, hair-removal, etc then some women will be affected by the societal expectation that ff is just as good as bf and their choices will be influenced by that. Have I misunderstood something in your post or in previous discussions involving the patriarchy and societal expectations of women.

My belief is that you can still make valid choices irrespective of social conditioning if you apply critical thinking. Of course there are societal pressures on everyone but it's your choice how you prioritise these. I don't agree with the term patriarchy but that's another thread.

I'm saying social conditioning is a powerful force but it doesn't mean that it is impossible for people to make good decisions based on their own context by critically evaluating all the information and pressure they experience.

If you take away a persons autonomy theoretically, what's the point in anyone thinking?

Aren't the formula manufacturers trying to push formula in developing countries and in areas of cheap labour? In areas where capitalists have moved to make use of cheap female labour, they push formula. In the west we have higher living costs, a better standard of life, more unemployment and the employment we do have is increasingly part time, temp contracts or at the other extreme, highly skilled full-time and well paid where long hours are the norm. The culture of long hours and 110% dedication is a way in which men often have an unfair advantage over women, it makes perfect sense that research is "found" that will direct women's behaviour.

Of course it's not impossible to make good decisions despite social conditioning, but I do think it's much harder to choose something that goes against the conditioning you have experienced. So if you have only ever known women who ff then it is much harder to apply critical thinking and decide that bf is for you and your baby. If everyone around you believes that breasts are sexual, bf makes your boobs sag, ff is just as good, or my personal highlight from my sil "boobs are for sex so you must be perverted for letting a baby suck on them" then those things become truth for you and it is difficult to choose bf as it is not important and will make your life more difficult.

So for me, coming from a family of bfers it was a much easier choice to bf than it was for my friend who came from a family of ffers. When we encountered similar problems my response was to ask for support from the bf midwives and health visitors, her response was to switch to formula. I'm not saying either of us behaved better or worse, just that our responses were different and that was, at least in part, down to our different upbringings and therefore different social conditioning.