Evening Standard refers to painting of older woman as "this ancient crone...ghastliness of ageing flesh... this repellent body."

[Bidisha]

www.bidisha-online.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/this-ancient-crone.html

I agree with HmmThinkingAboutIt, real beauty does lie in imperfections. The idealised standard of beauty peddled in the media is very bland, and so sort after and mimicked that people who possess it look quite ordinary. I think this is true for men as well as women. To me, a really beautiful face is one that has experience and personality written all over it.

I've been to art college too and have long believed that Brian Sewell is a prime example of my theory that people who can do, people who can't become art critics.

Well he's just wrong isn't he? I don't know why people pay him to write such hate-filled, incorrect drivel though. She doesn't look dead, she looks very alive and proud and kind. I have had the privilege of meeting many inspirational women of that sort of age and the light in their eyes from good humour and years of experience makes me almost look forward to getting older. :)

Obviously there are very sexist men of all sexual orientations, who find women inherently disgusting. But I do think if one of these very sexist men is also gay, they have less reason to even pretend to respect women and regard them as people, because they're not hoping to shag them at any point.

Elephants - You should be grateful that people pay him to write swill! The alternative is he'd have to get another job, and would you want to work with him? Imagine facing that awful cat-bum mouth every morning over the photocopier?!

Quote of the week: 'Well he's just wrong'. Sometimes, no more needs to be said!

I'm not sure if there's anything valid to be said about Brian Sewell being gay. There's that nasty concept of a woman being "fuckable" which hetero-sexists would say "Auntie" falls on the wrong side of--as opposed to the undoubtedly correct idea that she's an older lady who's been around and learned what she likes and how to share a good time, and any man who might win her favor would find himself rewarded and let's hope he deserves it. (Heteronormativity noted.)

What I'm saying is when it's a question of a woman outside the conventional standard of beauty, I don't think heterosexuals are necessarily kinder than gays. In fact I wouldn't count on women being kinder than men--what would they say about this picture in the Fashion & Beauty section of Mumsnet?

I would hope they'd say pretty much the same as most posters on this thread, just because they are interested in fashion/beauty doesn't mean they are a bunch of raving agists. In fact, some of them may post here too!

Surely no one takes the overly precious BS seriously do they? The man is so up his own fundament that he sees a lot of things through his own distorted lens.

Come on then Brian S, get your belly and cock out and we can all call you repulsive too. Inside and out. What a tosser. Why anyone listens to him any more is beyond me.

as a non-arty person, I think it's a lovely picture, of a normal, happy friendly older woman. I would be pleased to have a figure like hers at that age tbh.

I think it is because he is gay. I have often found that attitude in gay men. They keep themselves better, they stay slim and they are not that keen on talking about childbirth, menstruation and breastfeeding in the way some straight men are. I am not saying they are all like that but a good few are. Now that more are starting to have children that might change.

I now have a vision of a naked Brian Sewell, perhaps with a choir singing some of his father's music, may be a kind of interestingly ambiguous sexual image/picture "Art Critic Laid Bare" and on the one hand he is looking up to the naked older woman on the picture - wondering if he likes women and considering his relationship with his late mother and down below are the boys in their choir robes , I'm not happy with that bit, perhaps boys of 14+ and now Benjamin Britten and his "interests" are coming to mind too.

MMMarmite

"Old people's bodies generally look grim" So ageism's fine then Helxi?

Don't delude yourself over the perceived physical aesthetics of the average OAP. Nevermind OAPS, a typical 16 year old won't find someone in their mid-thirties attractive, because they are 'old'.

Humans peak in their 20's and then decline, both physically and mentally.

Don't blame me, I didn't invent the species.

StealthPolarBear

Helxi, homophobia?

Well, let's have a look at some of the comments so far....

GaryTankCommander
"Right, studied self naked. I think it's because I'm just not used to large, natural breasts then. . I expect Brian isn't either!"

WitchOfEndor
"I think she looks like a lovely warm and friendly older lady, no crone likeness at all. When was the last time Briam Sewell saw a naked lady anyway?"

bronze
"I was wondering if he had seen less real older women because he is gay."

MooncupGoddess
"Brian Sewell has, er, issues. I would actually rather read him slagging off perfectly unexceptionable paintings of naked women's bodies than lingering in gruesome detail over depictions of male genitalia ('the glans, glistening softly in the delicate chiaroscuro while a light shadow falls over the scrotum' etc etc - honestly, he often writes things like this)."

Xenia
"I think it is because he is gay."

... this collection of snide inferences and blunt statements are essentially asserting that BS's brain can't grasp the 'beauty' of older females because he is homosexual, by ignoring the probability that as an experienced art critic he will likely have seen more naked females of all shapes and sizes than most of the posters in this thread put together.

It's no better than saying someone can't understand the concept of law and order because they're black.

I hope you'd realize that was hate speech.

Helxi- you infer, they imply.

HTH.

How was my comment homophobic? Maybe I should have added the word naked but the implication was there

I put a whole load of information behind my post about gay men and their views of the female aesthetic. I also said some not all.

His revulsion seemed classic gay to me actually. I am not homophobic at all but it fit a very clear niche.
.." by ignoring the probability that as an experienced art critic he will likely have seen more naked females of all shapes and sizes than most of the posters in this thread put together. " Surely if he has seen goregous naked women painted in galleries and Benefitis supervisor naked or whatever that has no impact at all on what he thinks is beautiful. I don't understand the connection. I could see countless gorgeous women naked and not be moved in the same way as if I were lesbian. The number of such images I saw would not alter my reaction to them.

Not all gay men are repulsed by menstruation, large breasted women, breastfeeding and the like but sadly in my own experience many are. I hope that will change as they start more often to hire surrogates and have their own babies and hope my own experience is anecdotal and wrong. Actually surely it's proven that gay men are richer, better dressed and keep themselves better than the usual fat slob of a typical mumsnetters middle aged male straight husband who has let himself go.

My statement regarding myself and Brian not being used to large, natural breasts is not homophobic. I'm not used to large, natural breasts and this is not because I'm gay/not gay whatever, it's because I don't get any opportunity (for want of a better word) to see large, natural breasts. The only large breasts I see are on the front covers of lads mags in the supermarket. I imagine because he's gay that he doesn't get much opportunity either. So with regard to this particular view of the female form we are both naive.

He made plenty of comments, grotesque and crone-like being two of them, which i completely disagree with.

I am baffled how I got drawn into this thread... I read the article and I thought I would comment that her proportions looked wrong to me and her belly button too high (so in that sense I agreed with Brian). And it was pointed out to me that larger breasts (with age) do look this and that the belly button is in the correct place because it's at the same height as her elbows. I then commented that it probably didn't look right to me, as this isn't the body that I see when I look in the mirror. And as you must be well aware, it's not the body Brian will see when he looks in the mirror either...

And breathe...

And in a minute I am sure you will return to say that we are homophobic again because we feel the need to defend ourselves so strongly, so that must make us homophobic.

Gary i didn't think your comment was either. In the same way as I don't think mine was

Nope I'm with you on your comment bronze. Not homophobic in the slightest IMO.

To the poster who said 'how would this be received if posted in Style and Fashion?'

I'd still be wishing it was a piece I could have in my home! :)

Sorry entered to soon.

Painting very much remind's me of my mother if she were ten-fifteen years older, and to me my mum is the ultimate symbol of beauty.

Utterly bonkers to say that commenting that a gay man may not have as good an idea of what women look like naked outside of the world of magazines etc as a straight man is hate speech! Just statement of fact. I don't know what vaginas look like up close because I'm not very bendy or a lesbian. Is that hate speech too?

I think he has a thing about ageing. Yet a large number of the over 70s it was reported last week have sex.

" British men have been attacked recently for being unromantic, bad in bed, and reluctant to ask people out. Do you agree?
Bella Anderson, Tenby

What should I know of sex with British men? Catherine the Great might have answered "Send me one, and a German, a Dane, a Swede, a Nubian and an Italian for comparison, and I will tell you", but I can't do that. All I can tell you is that, as I grow older the hunger grows, too; as a boy, I imagined that it would diminish with manhood, but it did not and at 40 I had three concurrent lovers for that happy summer. Now, I look in the mirror and ask the image if I would, were I half my age, go to bed with myself as I am now, and answer "No". Worse, I might run a mile."

Marking place to read later

I think he has quite a bit of anti woman form