Toilets

[rosabud]

I just read the thread about boys failing in education because they do not "fit" into the gender-biased world of education and the article that argues how, in fact, women/girls do not "fit" into the gender biased whole world. It's a very thought-provoking and intellectual thread but it made me think of this rather less intellectual subject so I decided my thoughts might be better served on a new thread!

Anyway, one clear example of where women don't "fit" into the male norm expected by society and, as a result, have to suffer is, as I'm sue we've all experienced, that of public toilets. At the weekend I was standing patiently in a queue of women at a well-known chain of coffee shops outside the ladies while the gents was empty. Desperate and cross, I suggested we take matters into our own hands and we all began to use the gents as well, watching the door for eachother and offering to issue a warning should a real gent need to go! The male coffee shop assistant was very cross and told us we were not allowed to do this (on the basis of "health and safety" of all things which did give us a giggle!!) but we carried on anyway! He went to "get the manager" but by the time manager came we had all finished and order was restored!!

What do you think? Should we use the gents as a matter of course? Were we in the wrong?

surprised I need to explain these basic facts TBH!

It was semi tongue in cheek, but I have seen women take bloody ages while I'm next in ine and hopping.

complex hovering manoevres

The mind boggles :o

axure

"You must have read enough poo threads here..."

I haven't read any 'poo threads' here at all, alas, it would appear I've missed out on some cracking reads.

"...to know that polite ladies put some paper in the pan first to muffle the 'plop' and immediately flush to mimimise any unpleasant odour. Men don't seem to see the need for such niceties."

Well I like my bowel movements to have as small a carbon footprint as possible. Couldn't be doing with going for a crap and having to fret about the number of polar bear cubs last night's curry is about to kill. I'm glad your male colleagues appear equally environmentally aware.

That aside, how do you know women flush faster? Do you break out the stopwatch and clipboard during your lunchbreak? Little wonder the blokes are grunting with effort if they know they're in a race. Although it?s a touch cruel to using their socially conditioned competitiveness against them in such a fashion. Surely there's a more humane way of striking back at the patriarchy that doesn't involve inducing hernias in your workplace's male office staff?

SardineQueen

^"2. men don't generally shit in public conveniences"
"I think a lot of women do some complex hovering manoeuvres"
"surprised I need to explain these basic facts TBH! "^

"Basic facts" that you?ve ascertained how, precisely?

SardineQueen! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's been sitting in a toilet thinking that if they'd just offset the toilet a bit rather than plonking it in the middle there'd be room for the sanitary bin as well..

Mind you, I think it's just generally bad cubicle design, not necessarily bad and sexist - I've also been in plenty where the toilet roll dispenser sticks out so far you have to do a wiggle manoeuvre to get up and sit down.

About the peeing in the street...

I used to go to a lot of gigs, and I've seen a lot of bands outside the uk along the way.

In the Uk, guys will use any side hoarding to piss up at a festival. I've seen them pissing inside the main hall at small indoor venues (Liverpool I'm looking at you).

But then you go outside the Uk, and strange things start to happen. Like men queuing for the toilet, and indeed having a queue longer than the ladies. Where was this magic? The good ole' USA.

I do have to say that British men do seem to have a below par level of correct toilet etiquette. I definitely think the acceptability of pissing in the street is a taught and cultural thing - probably underpinned with how dimly the authorities view it.

Also it's the law that Mum takes the DCs to the loo, slowing the whole thing down still further.

I only have DDs and DH has never once taken them into the men's.

Don't think he ever took them out on his own, before they were old enough to sort themselves.

Are the Fathers of DS any better, because you get plenty of small boys in the ladies at weekends when dads are probably about.

Hmm re this peeing in the street. Having been confronted by men peeing in the street on occasions (yukkity yuk) I concluded a long time ago that men have weak bladders. But if they queue in other countries maybe it is only British men. However, I have seen peeing men in France, Italy and Spain, so maybe American men have a valve on the their wotsit or something....

Rosabud, what were you reading? Sounds interesting.

But loads of women have weak bladders! Women with weak bladders buy products while men apparently just piss up the nearest vertical surface

Is it Germany where the done thing for men is to piss sitting down?

Yes, Pubes, men pee sitting down in Germany. Some other northern countries too. Bloody right as well, it's minging to pee standing up, goes everywhere.

I also wonder what other women do in the toilet. I KNOW they are taking way longer than me, people remark on my speed in toilet situations.

The Idea of no urinals and unisex loos is bonkers

Do you really think us blokes will care about pissing all over the seat, floor, handles?

It wont be pleasant in there

i've got used to the french thing of having unisex cubicles plus a urinal or two, i just wish they'd put the urinal at the back rather than by the door so you have to walk past it.

Is that what you do at home Akermanis?

plenty I could if i wished but then I'd have to clean it up

Precisely, so why would you not behave in a civilised manner in public? It shows a deep disrespect for whoever does have to clean it up, doesn't it?

What pubes said.

Why are there longer queues outside the ladies? Because women wee more? Because there are more urinals than toilet cubicles? No, because women go into a cubicle and take ages. I have no idea what you are all doing in the cubicle. I go in, wee, wipe, flush and leave. This is something that has bemused me for ages. I imagine women are doing their makeup in private. More research needs to be done into this, to provide the optimum design for public loos.

A few years ago they opened up some urinals outside the local train station which had a wee door thing that would just cover the mens bums.

Was very annoyed when bursting for a pee that there were all these urinals for men when there was already male toilets inside the train station (along with female toilets that you had to pay 20p to get in) .

Was awakened though when I bought some she pee things at a festival a few years ago and was able to use the (communal) urinals there. Was brilliant to not have to que!

PlentyOfPubeGardens

"Precisely, so why would you not behave in a civilised manner in public? It shows a deep disrespect for whoever does have to clean it up, doesn't it?"

More importantly it keeps them in a job. No one becomes a toilet cleaner because they want respect.

Toilet cleaners deserve as much respect as anyone else, if not more.

Their main reason for doing the job maybe for money, and respect for themselves, but they should still hope for, if not expect, respect from the public.

No, because women go into a cubicle and take ages. I have no idea what you are all doing in the cubicle. I go in, wee, wipe, flush and leave

I agree, but apparently SardieQueen thinks we are missing something basic, but she doesn't want to explain these basic facts - seems to involve complex hovering manoevres :o

Toilet cleaning is often an entry level profession for foreigners while they learn English and get established. Give them respect, they have probably travelled a hard road.

Sidenote.

Can anyone explain women going to the toilet in pairs and sharing a cubicle. To this day it baffles me...

LynetteScavo

"^Toilet cleaners deserve as much respect as anyone else, if not more.

Their main reason for doing the job maybe for money, and respect for themselves, but they should still hope for, if not expect, respect from the public^."

More respect than a paramedic, a nurse, a scientist? Umm, no. And the only thing they should realistically expect is bodily fluids, whilst hoping for their absence.

Whatmeworry

"I agree, but apparently SardieQueen thinks we are missing something basic, but she doesn't want to explain these basic facts - seems to involve complex hovering manoevres"

The phrase "complex hovering manoevres" brings to mind a Chinook helicopter trying to land on uneven terrain.

How this may relate to using a toilet I can only guess.

Helxi, are you serious? Fuck that. I respect everyone on the same level. Maybe a paramedic's job is fundamentally more interesting, but I wouldn't say I respect them more.

If a paramedic doesn't do their job properly you could quite easily die. If a cleaner doesn't do their job properly the toilets might smell bad.

For me that's an important distinction.