Is feminism all about man hating?

[PedanticPanda]

When feminism is brought up around my DP and my other friends they all say the same thing,

I agree with feminists who want equal rights for men and women, but not feminists who hate men and want women to be treated better than men.

Do these feminists actually exist? I assumed that feminism was all about equal rights etc, I thought all the man hating was a stereotype but wasn't actually true, but, most people I know seem to think this is the idea of the majority and it's the minority of feminists who want equal rights.

I would agree with that namechange - there's clear evidence of that here on MN. Women refuse to identify as feminists, they clearly pull women up on double standards but can't see it in their own lives.

I don't blame them - one has to wonder whether the whole 'man-hating- is deliberately overplayed to ensure that feminism is seen as a dirty word and if so, what causes this ?

MrGin - I will no longer respond to you. Your posts are the sort of thing I would consider banning a poster for. But hey, I'm not MNHQ - I'll leave it in their hands and not contribute to any further derailing of this thread.

So how can feminism go more mainstream? How can it present itself as common-sense politics, rather than something only pursued by hairy-legged man-haters? (Not that they are, just how they are perceived).

Can't we leave dittany out of this? I mean, I personally won't miss her but dragging up stuff she may or may not have said on a deleted thread when she is not even here isn't really cricket.

drjohnsonscat that is a really interesting link, thanks.

I'm going to re-post it in case anyone missed it.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/27/mohandas-gandhi-women-india

It would make for a really interesting thread actually. I imagine this is not an isolated case of a man being held up by society whilst everyone conveniently ignores his misogyny.

And I do love a good Orwell quote (if he turns out to be a misgynitst too, please don't tell me ).

From drjohnsonscat's link;

But Gandhi was also a puritan and a misogynist who helped ensure that India remains one of the most sexually repressed nations on earth ? and, by and large, a dreadful place to be born female. George Orwell, in his 1949 essay Reflections on Gandhi, said that "saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent". If only.

So men who say that people should be treated as individuals and not all tarred with the same brush are whining? If anyone were to make such sweeping generalisations about women or black people or anyone else it would be found offensive for criticism of such prejudice to be called whining
Can you not comprehend the differences in generalising about a privileged group and about an oppressed one?

After making this criticism of men you then promote us to Gods who can apparently stop evil acts from happening. I only wish I were blessed with such super powers. I can assure you that if I had these powers that women would be a lot safer than they are.
I'm not talking about "stopping evil acts from happening". I'm merely stating that complaining about women generalising about men is hardly showing your support for the feminist cause

I don't know. I started a thread about using the word oppression as I think it seems to be both a combative and threatening stance to take when talking about the patriarchy.

Men could do so much more on an individual level in my opinion. Doesn't it annoy you as a man that women are scared of you, are worried that you are judging them, will lie quietly below you instead of either participating in sex or telling you no. Doesn't it bother you as a man that your daughters may be constrained in a way that your sons aren't, simply because of their being a woman. Can't you see that the sexist jokes, the simple things like women drive jokes, the stag nights, the porn, the domestic violence, the inability to convict rapists are all part of the same problem.

Men, as individuals, need to act. You need to support women, you have the power to change the system because it's your system. We can do it slowly by chipping away or reject it all together. Neither is ideal.

You, as a man, could live your life in a way that doesn't pay lip service to equality but actively contribute to achieving it. You could work with us.

And yes, we as women could do so much more but it's tiring fighting this every single day. It's soul destroying seeing another victim of abuse. It gets us down, it angers us, it disempowers us. You could help us.

Rights movements are about making the people they aim to support feel safe, not the oppessor class' feelings.

Ah, the thread is back on track between writing and posting that. As you were, folks

Interesting stuff, Blistory. I wish I had more time to respond right now, but I am going out. I would say though, as a human being it saddens me to see any other human beings persecuted, attacked or treated disrespectfully.

I will pop back later if this is still running.

You could also have left that at your first sentence so why bring up the radfems. There's always got to be a negative. Why not try posting here about your actions and ideas ?

Please let it go and work with us. Making women justify their beliefs puts us on the back foot again and again and again.

@OTheHugeManatee

but dragging up stuff she may or may not have said on a deleted thread when she is not even here isn't really cricket.

Well. Quite.

No Lurking she wasn't. There are a whole bunch of rumours going around on here about dittany at the moment, including that she was banned. But the rumours are not true.

(Not at you Lurking - at the rumour spreading.)

blistory because it's relevant.

If we are talking about why some femenists are percieved as hating men ( the OP ) or the reasons why some people are put off getting involved, then I think it's worth looking at why this is, and MN offers some good examples.

And I'm not asking you to justify your beliefs, I'm pretty sure we're on the same track generally.

Poor Dittany :(

You make some good points Blistory but I do support the women in my life both at home and at work. I'm going to leave it at that because although I think we have similar views about how individuals should be treated I don't think we are going to reach a consensus on the best way to achieve equality.

Where's my stern telling off Olivia !

Relevant to what ?

Relevant to why women are raped simply because they are women ?

Relevant to why a women is beaten and disrespected simply because she is a woman ?

Relevant to why a woman is marginalised at work simply because she is a woman ?

Relevant to why a women is considered less equal to a man simply because she is a woman ?

You didn't need to pick an example. The point has been made that some women hate some men. You are point scoring and using one woman, a particular woman, to prove a point that doesn't need to be proved.

With respect MrG, "Well. Quite" was the massively understated 'stern' telling off. It's how you read it.

If Dittany. has been banned then Mumsnet HQ should be ashamed. She is brave and principled- and twice the person most of her detractors are.