Is feminism all about man hating?

[PedanticPanda]

When feminism is brought up around my DP and my other friends they all say the same thing,

I agree with feminists who want equal rights for men and women, but not feminists who hate men and want women to be treated better than men.

Do these feminists actually exist? I assumed that feminism was all about equal rights etc, I thought all the man hating was a stereotype but wasn't actually true, but, most people I know seem to think this is the idea of the majority and it's the minority of feminists who want equal rights.

Personally I think that some men are caught in a patriarchal / hierarchical / sub-dom way of thinking where someone has to either win or lose, and illogically conclude that if feminists don't want women to be underneath they must want them to be on top.

That is SO true!

Men can't be feminists. Someone on MN told me that very firmly.

She said I could be an 'equalist' if wanted to be though as long as I shut up and listened.

Thanks for all of your replies, I had started to doubt myself there because I had heard it so often but now I can confidently explain that feminism is certainly not driven by man hatred. I'll show this thread to DP though as you all explain it far more articulately than I could!

DH is a feminist though one with some cognitive dissonance.

so am i come to that.

believing 'women are equal and should be treated as such' makes you a feminist...practicing it down to the small details of life is the difficult bit.

Agree, Edgar. Social conditioning has us all in its thrall

I've met a couple of self-described feminists who did hate men. But after spending time in their company it was quite apparent that they hated women too, possibly more than they hated men. Some people are just very misanthropic.

Similarly, every man I've met who believed all feminists hated him did seem to be the type who resented women not being at their beck and call, and all bought into the idea of some hard-faced career woman who was determined to drive them out of the workplace. However, these were all older men (late 40s upwards) and they had similar fears and prejudices about younger men taking what they felt was rightfully theirs.

There are women out there who certainly give the impression of hating men. The tend to believe Julie Bindel is the gospel for feminism. I certainly have issues as a women with women telling me having sex with DH is negative towards feminism and sex is patriarchal support. That aspect of feminism seems very man hating to me.

MrGin, wasn't the Gandhi comment accompanied by an example of Gandhi sleeping next to naked young virgins to test himself?

OP, no, feminism is not about man-hating. Without feminism, women would not have the vote, the right to keep working once married, maternity rights, equal pay (ish), control of fertility )... None of this is man-hating!

I can confidently explain that feminism is certainly not driven by man hatred

I think that some extreme ideas may be driven by man hatred, or are at least pushed hardest to their limits by women who hate men (I'm thinking of Seperatist ideas here for eg).

IMO the Radical Feminist analysis tends to attract more of these sort of extremists than other schools of thought.

But as noted above, these extremists are a small %

(I think that point about hating women more is apt. And don't mention transgender... :o )

That is all very true I think SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed. I remember a male poster in a forum years ago who used to say "women are wired wrong". I used to think that what he meant was that he didn't like women because they didn't meet some idealistic view he had of them. He didn't seem to like other men much either which also fits your theory.

Oh, yeah, some people are just bastards

I think if someone were ever to do a Spotter's Guide to Radical Politics you'd see some personality types appearing in all kinds of movements: The Misanthrope and The Shouty Dogmatist for example. It's not unique to feminism, so don't let anyone suggest to you it is

I don't think any aspect of feminisim hates men, but that some individual women do. I think that view merits some sympathy as often women who are accused of man-hating are either saying something unpopular, have been seriously hurt by a man which is then reinforced by a system that favours them or are exposed daily to some horrific treatment of women.

I can see that that affects their view but I can't think of anyone I've ever come across who actually hates not just individual men but also men as a collective.

I think it's unfair to refer to previous posters Mr Gin and state that they hate men. It's not as clear cut as that and to quote of out context gives that more impact than was intended.

What we post about the theory of feminism isn't necessarily the same approach we take in real life, but it's just so damn difficult to challenge every stereotype or injustice everytime. AIBU being a case in point.

What HugeManatee said.
I've never met a feminist who hated men. But if anyone were to accuse me of being a man-hater, I'd say I'd rather be one of those than a mug. Which is what the complainers about man-hatred would really prefer me to be, I think.

i think it's a sign of progress that whilst my Dad is also a feminist, he could on occasion say something like 'that's a womans job' about cleaning and then feel really stupid, knowing that kind of thing isn't rationally defensible..

to DH, one generation on, who just doesn't notice that the kitchen floor is dirty for weeks and if questioned why, might admit he thought it was my job.

less cognitive dissonance from one generation to the next.

My son may even get as far as to recognise when a thing is dirty, and clean it himself without asking a woman first.....

The best example of man-hating I can think of is those people who are forever telling women not to go out alone, or drink too much, or wear miniskirts, with the implication that all men are potential rapists. I'd call that man-hating. I have rapists, sure, but I am fully aware that most men are not rapists, and their reaction to a drunk woman on her own would most likely be to leave her alone.

I think Othehugemantee has got it right - all political movements (as with society in general) include some people who don't like other people very much. Sometimes they use their politics as cover to justify themselves

I've met some environmental activists for example who don't seem to like people very much and talk at length about how great the world would be if there werent any people in it. However they are not representative of the views of environmentalists generally. it's just that environmental politics give cover for their views.

It would be stupid to say that no feminists hate men because some feminists are bound to. The point is that hating men is not central to feminism.

I also think that the association of radical feminism with man hating is a myth - people seem to think radical means 'more extreame' so when someone talks about those nasty extreme feminists who hate men they somehow assume that this is what radical feminism is. But the hating men thing is about personality, not politics. As I said before a great many non feminist women seem to hate men, and most of the radical feminists I know don't hate men, even those who chose to work with women only.

It's worth repeating the great Andrea Dworkin quote 'Have you ever wondered why we are not in armed combat with you. It is not because there's a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence. here

I think it's unfair to refer to previous posters Mr Gin and state that they hate men. It's not as clear cut as that and to quote of out context gives that more impact than was intended

Well to be fair I did say they gave the 'impression' of hating men'. And it wasn't just one isolated incident. It was a year of observation and seeing comment after comment describing men, as a collective, in pretty unsavoury terms.

I don't think it was a feminist stance at all, I think it was down to personality, and going out on a limb I'd hazard a guess , personal bad experience.

I know it's contentious, and I don't really want to get in a convo about it, but the mantra ' all men are potential rapists ' is pretty offensive to a lot of people.

And I can see how if you are on the more radical end, and submerse yourself in radical theory about the patriarchy, and man's entitlement and crimes, you are probably going to think less of men as a collective.

A lot of the men talked about on Mn are scum though - especially in relationships...
i read out the posts and DH says 'She should leave him, he's a twat'....

he likes it because he looks brilliant by comparison.

I think being angry at the status quo is not the same as hating men. But the two can easily be confused by an uncritical observer, or someone who wilfully wants to muddy the waters.

I think being angry at the status quo is not the same as hating men. But the two can easily be confused by an uncritical observer, or someone who wilfully wants to muddy the waters

Well yes, or they could indeed hate men.

I don't know if I qualify as a feminist, but I never hated men as a whole, I always said that I used to choose the wrong ones :D

Anyway, I met a couple of women who sounded quite hateful of men but I think the majority of feminists don't hate men at all.

Are there individual women who hate men? Maybe.

If so, do any percentage of them self-identify as feminists? Maybe.

Is feminism all about man-hating? No.

I think we're all in agreement that anyone who equates feminism with hating men is an idiot.