Is feminism all about man hating?

[PedanticPanda]

When feminism is brought up around my DP and my other friends they all say the same thing,

I agree with feminists who want equal rights for men and women, but not feminists who hate men and want women to be treated better than men.

Do these feminists actually exist? I assumed that feminism was all about equal rights etc, I thought all the man hating was a stereotype but wasn't actually true, but, most people I know seem to think this is the idea of the majority and it's the minority of feminists who want equal rights.

Dowager yes you're right. It does make me think about the privilege I have. So maybe it's ok for me to feel uncomfortable and just admit that.

Just because some people have different priveleges doesn't mean your privilege doesn't exist any more.

I am white, I am educated, I live in a developed country. Those are my privileges. But I am also working class, have mental health problems and am a woman.

So there are other ways in which I am not priviliged. It's really not that difficult to grasp.

Have to admit In my life I don't see any privalage by virtue of being male. ( happy to be put right and enlightened ) I understand we live in a patriarchy and that women are treated badly in the same way that I understand we have a privalage of being a first world country at the expense of other peoples...

It's not really odd that men don't see their own privilege, because we (of course I mean me!) imagine 'privilege' means some sort of Amex Gold card for all that life has to offer. It's an interpretation thing.

I mean, who sits in the traffic of a morning, in the rush hour, feeling privileged to be white? Not many of us, I imagine. Nor do we in the shops, or the myriad of other dull stuff we do. It's there, but so many of us are wrapped up in our own world with all the problems that our white privilege doesn't appear to help with. Laws are in place (in Europe) to deal with racism, so we can easily assume that its a receding problem. But laws don't change attitudes, and prejudices can burn for a long time. The same with sexism - laws are there, and so if we aren't subject to the remaining attitudes and prejudices, we assume everything is hunky-dory. If we spent 6 months in a summer's field, counting daisies and writing poetry, doubtless more men would get round to thinking about these things. However, most men would feel they have too much shit to wade through every day just to keep their head above the surface.

I hope this doesn't sound like a self-pitying whinge, because it isn't. I think it's why men baulk at the idea of ' privilege' though. Maybe it's the word. Sorry if it's a bit waffly.

i get the privilege thing, i'm not as stupid as my spelling would have you belive, but imagine this...

a well dressed, educated, well spoken black man go's to the illiterate unshaven white trash guy with 8 dirty kids on the council estate and tells him he must understand and accept that he is privileged compared to him.

the black guy is right, with being white there are privileges, but it;s hard to swallow for that white guy.

Can you walk down the street knowing you won't be whistled at, told to "cheer up" or have random adjectives thrown at you?

Can you go to a bar on your own and not be hassled every 5 minutes by people wanting to chat you up when you just want a quiet drink on your own?

When you get dressed up to go out, do you ever worry that people will judge you negatively because of what you're wearing, or give you too much attention? Or can you just wear your favourite clothes and not worry too much about what people think of you?

If you can do those things, then yes, you have privilege. And really, those are just the minor details of being a woman.

Today I played a game with my class on the smartboard. Each team had a little avatar to represent their team. One team had a policeman (male) one had a builder (male) and one had a woman. No job indicated, just a woman. Each time, the boys from the team with the female avatar moaned that they had a female avatar. The girls didn't complain about having a male avatar. They just accepted it as normal.

Did it depress me? Yes, it did. And it reminded me that as a woman, I am "other".

No meow, that's not what privilege means. It doesn't mean you are privileged, it means you have privileges.

Maybe you should go and read about it before trying to contribute to the debate.

( waits to get accussed of hijacking discussion to tall about the menz )

;)

I don't think it's hard to understand that you can have different privileges. Class, sex, race...one doesn't cancel out the other.

It seems to me that what Whatme implies is that in order to be listened to you have to reassure men that you are one of the nice ones, you are rational, and you won't bite. This bespeaks a poor opinion of men -- can they not handle the truth?

The truth is that, for all humans, being nasty, irrational and biting them does not win friends, nor does it influence people. The opposite in fact.

little snipe there yellow, not like you!

i suppose i accept that i have male privilege, it's just i inpulsively recoil from the idea because it just deosnt feel like it.

Is it sniping? Or is it just advising?

Of course people don't feel comfortable accepting privilege. Why would they?

NCG, not waffly at all.

I think part of the men-not-seeing-privilege problem is that initiatives that seek to favour women are far more visible than the huge constant low level discrimination against them.

So, for every science research grant that is open to women only there are 1000 boys opening up a science kit for their birthdays whilst their sisters receive a princess make up set.

peoplesrepublic Did you catch this the first time it was posted on the FWR section (only a month or two ago)? kotaku.com/5910857/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is

wheezo

yes i saw that, but i dont deny the presence of sex-privilege. i just say that i find the idea problematical

Disregarding the "women are wonderful" bull for the patriarchal falsehood that it is, do any of the women here think there are any genuine real privileges bestowed upon women?

Chairman maybe it would be useful to look at specific areas rather than a whole. For example may I ask what your occupation is?

So you acknowledge it exists so not sure how you find it problematic? You just think it doesn't apply to you?

Also why would you assume all the people on here are white middle class women?

Whatme, you're kidding right? There's barely any difference between the two. You've been putting us through the wringer for a teeny tiny tweaking of language. Really... tsk tsk

The difference is in tone. One is an admission of an issue, the other is a non-admission admission.

As I said, now what?

With one, you get listened to for your second sentence.

like i said upthread messy, i'm a builder

wheezo, i dont assume they all are , but most people here do seem to be quite articulate
as i'm a man it must apply to me, i just dont feel privileged, quite the opposite.

I'm white. I have white privilege.

Mum and I are very poor, single mum family. We don't have middle class privilege.

I'm not the ugliest girl around, I have privilege as being regarded as a 'better woman' () because of this. (Sorry to sound arrogant, just trying to explain how multifaceted types of privilege are, even between women which we know)

I have educational privilege.

I have lots of MH and some nasty physical health issues. Don't know what that falls under but I get judged on that a lot, so some sort of 'not privilege.'

There's lots of types of privilege. You can accept it without consciously acknowledging it all day long, which frankly wouldn't be healthy!

If I worded any of that badly I'm really sorry, it's almost 6AM here and I haven't slept. (Damn insomnia!)

I hope my point came across anyway.

It is not about BEING privileged, it is about HAVING privilege. There's a huge difference.

Just because someone is articulate doesn't mean they're middle class.

Just because you don't feel privileged, doesn't mean you aren't Chairman.