Today I failed as a feminist.

[youngblowfish]

I am a feminist and have a 14 month old DS. DH and I share childcare as my work is flexible and he gets a lot of time off.

Today during an argument, I realised that DH has not cooked a single meal for DS since he was born. Somehow, I shouldered the burden of feeding our child entirely, although we both work FT, without even realising it! How did that happen? Damn you, patriachy!

Just needed to vent - I am really disappointed in myself.

And wine, too. There must be wine.

I thought this was actually a good illustration of how small things can be part of a much larger issue. And how we may let ourselves slip into the old-fashioned way of doing thingsmum feeding the children when there's a perfectly good dad available to do itwithout thinking about it. Not that mothers can't put meals together, but a couple needs to divide chores up so they're both happy, which might mean inverting the traditional roles, or keeping them, or mixing everything up.

Maybe the sharing of food has a symbolic importance, and we should make a point of involving everyone (adults anyway) in a family in providing it. Because when our half-starved ancestors roamed the savannas, if you managed to find something to eat and shared it with someone else, it was a sacrifice, and a real bond between you. So seeing your partner put a meal on the table for you and your shared children really means a lot. Or perhaps I'm being too fanciful.

There still has to be wine.

Ladies, great minds think alike. I was just thinking how much DH and I would enjoy a demo with wine across our kitchen. For my fellow feminists, I'd even bake.

Youngblowfish - I'm glad you and your DH are tackling this.

My comment about control was not so much that you would unreasonably want to control the cooking, or think that your dH can't do it.

But there will be real issues where you and your DH do disagree over the right way to feed your kid(s) - is desert everyday or a treat? Is McDs ok and how often? Is a chocolate spread sandwich and a packet of crisps a decent packed lunch? When is it ok to eat in front
of the TV? What do you cook from scratch and what comes out of a
packet? ... Tons of questions.... You will disagree on some of them because you were brought up differently. That's when the control thing kicks in. Lots of mums set the rules around food and delegate them to dads. It's the other side of the coin of slipping into doing everything yourself.

I would be careful off both of them.

Enjoy too though!

What's wrong with you Back2Two?

You seem very upset by this thread.

Is the OP doing feminism wrong?

"Equality for me means sharing the earning, cleaning, cooking, child rearing ....whatever-ing. Talking. And doing whatever, whenever to help each other and work together.

IF there was an issue that I felt was a problem (if i felt i was doing too much of one task or whatever) I'd just sort it out with my husband. In a conversation. It would be easy and he would respond without any drama."

Exactly. And this is what the OP has just done.

In order to do this sharing in an equitable manner, one has to be aware of what each partner is doing.

Iiuc, the OP was just expressing her surprise upon realising that she and her DH had fallen into an unequal pattern without either of them noticing. Doesn't sound like there's been any drama in putting it right - but both have reflected on how they fell into this pattern, and why. And shared that musing with MN.

I actually don't understand what you're criticising, Back2Two. But you describe yourself as dissenting so presumably you're criticising something.

Sorry, "disagreeing with" would be better than "criticising".

I just can't see the bit in the OP's conduct you're disagreeing with.

I don't, actually, think Relationships are all about Sitting Down Discussing Stuff. (It's always sitting down too, have you noticed? One never discusses stuff in an ambulatory manner.) Sometimes they're just about insisting that men do their fair share of the cooking.

I do, actually, quite like cooking. I am a good cook. I also believe that cooking is one of those fundamental household things that women do far too much of.

Working together...hmm. Not sure about all that. Am clearly Bad Uncommunicative Partner.

I have not emptied a simgle bin of rubbish
Fixed the toilet seats
done any decorating
mowed the lawn

Is this about gender?

Since we moved intot hsi hosue togetehr 7 years ago...

Mumblecrumble: If "we" refers to an able-bodied pair of man & woman; if you do not have paid domestic staff, and if you as the woman do the cooking, cleaning & shopping - then yes. I would say it's about gender.

It looks like there is wine in the Mumblecrumble abode.

The items never done by the woman form part of a picture, but we'd like to hear what the man never does. But even if it's all the traditional stuff, it's fine if the couple have thought about how they're living and they're satisfied with it.

Don;t drink - did you mean the typos? Sorry, watching comedy and chatting with DH as I type.

I guess I was just surprised by the title of the thread really.

Yes, that is it Back2two - "equality to me means I don't have to have these discussions. Even if it had happened in my life I wouldn't view it as some big gender issue. Just something that my partner and I could review". Yep that is it.

If I asked DH to cook the meals and shop which i maninly do he would. Gender would not come into it. I don;t do above jobs becasue I have health problems and am physically much weaker than DH. If he was really poorly as... ah yes, have just remmebered, he had flu and I did attempt to empty the bin.... Not gender based.

What DH never does: Complain that he has to do anything, suggest that anything is because I am female/he is male, tell me I can;t do soemthing. When i tried to do the bin he complimented me on my amazing ability to get round diffuclt things (I had tipped bin on its side, wedged against dorr etc etc....)

Is OP suggested her other half hasn;t cooked because he is anti feminist?

I think 'congratulating' the op on having realised, because the roles are so internalised that even someone who identifies as a feminist can get caught up in expectations, for all sorts of reasons, and then suddenly wake up and smell the coffee.

It's congratulations for the realisation, congratulations for not letting the status quo go on, and congratulations for realising the importance of sharing this sort of stuff when both partners of whatever sex work ft. Because otherwise the 'default' setting of the woman doing the kid's cooking gets perpetuated further. Your husband, back, and now the op's husband, are making valuable inroads into changing the default setting.

But if you want to prove how much better at this feminist malarkey than she is, and demand praise for it, crack right on. You're both doing a great job. Bit small minded not to congratulate her for doing the same thing as you, though.

And a big well done for finding it so easy.

I saw the op as a 'fuck me, how did this happen to a feminist?' post. Because she realised that even the small things are important in the wider scheme of things, slowly changing the status quo.

I'm not at all sure why you are being so vindictive about it.

Your DH seems a decent sort and this sounds like something that happened by accident as you were the only source of food for the baby at first and it just carried on that way.

I often see couples out in town with their baby in a pushchair and the baby starts crying or needs some attention and the mother literally elbows the father out of the way. Have you been inadvertently doing that with food?

Now you have noticed what is going on you need to make sure you take a step back and count to ten and let your DH get it wrong or do it different to how you do it.

Best solution is get your DS on to a version of your food ASAP so it takes no extra effort.

Mumble, the op is surprised that because both she and her dh identify as feminist, and both work ft, they have only just noticed that they have reverted to patriarchal stereotype in the kid's cooking domain. Nah, it isn't immediate life changing, but it is a shock when you realise how insidious these things are, even when you think you are fighting against them.

Back2Two, you seem very angry that the OP has realised she has imperceptibly fallen into those gender roles that so many couples unintentionally fall into and you're sneering at her for posting that she's realised it and she'd going to change it. Then you're implying that you're a much more competent feminist than her because you don't need to discuss this stuff with your DH as you've already got your domestic work sorted.

If any of the regular rad fems took this tone, they'd be slated.

What's the matter with you, why are you so angry that people acknowledge that it's very difficult for couples not to fall into gender roles and to congratulate someone who has realised that she was doing so but has nipped it in the bud?

Were we all supposed to snarl at her that she's a rubbish feminist who shouldn't need to tell her DH this stuff?

Back2Two, I think I get your issue. Others have been very kind to me on this thread - kind for responding in the first place and kind in being supportive. In the most maligned section of the nest of vipers, they kindly engaged with me, offered their experiences and avoided condescension, despite the matter being somewhat trivial. They even, a bit tongue in cheek, offered to come round to my kitchen to stage a protest, wine and sweets in hand. Would that not be a splendid idea? Even those agreeing with your point of view (ruby), have also been kind. You are not a lone voice of dissent on this thread, but you do appear to be uniquely riled by it and, to be honest, just a little unpleasant.

Like others, I struggle to see where exactly I am doing feminism wrong or what is wrong with feminists being kind to one another.

Would you mind elaborating on your statement about politics starting in the bedroom? I don't follow and would like to understand.

TeiTetua, I completely see your perspective in terms of the symbolic importance of food. I enjoyed a lovely moment this evening when PFB DS was tucking into a lamb tagine made by DH. The golden child ate his usual portion and then demanded more. DH got so emotional and overcome with parental tenderness, he had to have a glass of wine. I am officially retiring as the baby-food-maker-in-chief today. Beta, it turns out I have been unwittingly depriving them of an aspect of their relationship. Well, no more.

I have to say I have mused on this a lot, the wider issues the thread raises, I mean, not this thread itself. I have an unequal marriage, partly through circumstances as DH and I don't live together full time and partly as DH doesn't see certain things as his responsibility because I was a single parent before we met, so doing everything was my default setting.

It is a process of learning for him that a commitment to gender equality is more than just words, and a balance for me between making progress to equality and living in a battleground, where I just think I am better off alone. Truth is, we live in an unequal society and changing that on a personal level can be hard. I think the OP is right to raise it and to address it, and I think it is great she and her DH have resolved it. If others don't even have to have that discussion with their partners, that's great too, but survey after survey suggests their relationships are the exception, rather than the rule.

Can I just add to the OP, I don't think you failed here at all, I think this is a great example of equality benefitting everyone in the family

Back2Two, in my experience, it's not about views, it is about action, and inequality becomes much more apparent after children are born. But that is just my experience.

Interesting that two dads made the same point about women retaining ownership of childcare, even when their male partners view the responsibility as equal. I've seen it it RL, too, a lot. And I perceive it as anti-feminist.

Until we have genuine parity in public and in private, I'm afraid I think it's retrograde for couples to split the home work according to traditional gender roles. The fact that she's better at food provision, say, while he's better at woodwork, probably means nothing else than that they were respectively trained into those roles. Anyone can do cookery and put up shelves, as we find out if we go solo. Deciding to stick with what you know is not only lazy but politically irresponsible.

She who "allows" DP to feed the child according to her rules has pinned too much of her identity to her womanly role as feeder. Ditto the man who "shows" her how to use a rawlplug, then takes over when she flounders. I know, I sound awfully Seventies! But how can we advance equality if we don't let go of traditional gender roles in our own lives?