Radfems and transsexuals – an outsider’s view

[NoviceProFemGuy]

I?ve been reading the recent threads discussing feminism and transgender, and pretty challenging I?ve found them too. As an outsider, though, I can?t help thinking a lot of the radfems? concerns aren?t, in reality, an issue when it comes to the practicalities of how men oppress women.

This is going to be a bit of a long post, so to save it all appearing at the top of subsequent pages (assuming there are any) I?ll put the meat of it in a separate post below.

Julia ? yes, there is resistance when those in power are asked to give up that power. But progress has been made over the last century or too in this country despite that. I have a possibly naive hope that the culture that oppresses women can continue to be eroded by education and argument

so what do you want liberation from? patriachy?

Sorry to hear you've had problems with bitter cakes. Maybe turn the oven down so it cooks less quickly.

my cakes are delicious, the trick is to mix a little lemon zest in with the flour, make such a difference....maybe i should transfer to the cooking section?

So easy to be blasé about some other group making progress towards equality over centuries, with future progress occuring at a similarly glacial pace

i am not a geological formation, so that kind of pace is just not good enough

go on and tell me, my daughter, why we ought to be patient for something that won't happen in our lifetime

Gradual erosion my bum

what am i , limestone?

I agree with the op.
Only by educating them,can men see when they are being sexist.

I think women shouting and getting irate about it,get nowhere.

Chibi ? The point I was trying to make is that violent revolution is not the only way to make progress. I?m certainly not saying you should be patient. It would be fantastic if the change feminists want could happen in your lifetime. The question is: what?s the best way to achieve that?

Violent revolution Where is the violence coming from feminists? Are you think of male violence towards women?

Why isn't your question "what can I do to help you achieve that?" along with a bit of "I'm prepared to put my head above the parapet and take some flack too, along with putting my hand in my pocket every now and again", instead of the you-are-doing-it-all-wrong stance.

How refreshing would that be?

I don't know, there has certainly been lots of patient explaining why rape/violence against women/wage gaps/inequality in general/etc etc etc are crap, and yet here we are, living in a sexist misogynist world, where the paradigm of male dominance through violence penetrates every layer and area of our culture and lives

i appreciate that violent revolution must sound a bit intimidating to people who are privileged by the current system, but nice and patient explaining doesn't seem to be getting us there. Maybe violent revolution is the way forward.

i am being a teeny bit facetious, but it is funny how people cede power, not when they are asked, not when someone appeals to their sense of justice, but when they think they alternative might be being strung up or guillotined or riots etc

hahaha and everything hotheadpaisan has said

I think feminists need to talk to men.
MN on the whole is talking to other women.

Alice ? I was responding to Julia?s post about the Middle East.

Rulers ? yes, that is what I need to do more of. Perhaps a thread on what pro-feminist men can do to make a difference would help me.

But what I was trying to do in a ham-fisted way was give a male view of a feminist concern in the hope that by understanding how men feel feminists might be better able to change their (ie men's) behavior

Which is excellent, as I just don't think society is set up to hear a man's view very much. It's pretty much ignored by the media, politics, academia, religion, internet and so on.

What?! It's up to men to have a sit down, read abit, think awhile and change their own behaviour. Isn't it?!

Men dont tend to change their behaviour unless women challenge them on it,imo.

this is so hilarious (thanks especially a lot Alice) have fucked up my usually perfect gorgonzola sauce

ethel i think perhaps 'rapists should stop rapeing women' would be more appropriate, unless you think all men are rapists of course?

Oihhhh, back to the "all men are rapists", are we?

No, Ethel wasn't saying that.

Saying "Men should stop raping" points out that ALL rapists (in the UK) are men.

English Language 101...

never mind the 'ohh back to the' or 'oh not that old chestnut again'

thats just a very transparent verbal trink intended to block a perfectly resonable point before it's started.

saying 'men should stop raping' implies that all men rape.

Amillionyears, do you really think that all the FWR section do is sit around, drinking tea, baking cakes and talking to each other on here?