Was anyone else outraged by the clerics comments on Question Time last night?

[mrsruffallo]

All the blame was focused on the victims involved in the recently reported grooming case. Apparently the way the girls were dressed and the fact they were out at night was the causen for them being repeatedly gang raped.
And what on earth were the comments about 'having sex for a packet of crisps'??
I am appalled.

messy , i dont see your point, if a footbaler is guilty of rape and is being sent down for it in what way are the victims being blamed ?

oh yes, let's leap to rebut the "all men are rapists" arguyment (which no-one has actually made), chairmanmeow, because that's what really important here.
All those poor innocent men being defamed.
For fuck's sake.

"The only way to stop rape is for men to stop raping"

no one has actualy made?

Stop the diversion.we are talking about hideous offences being committed against children. your preoccupation with the "what about the menz" whining is trivial to the point of being sick, frankly.

chairman a precis:

Victim named and "slut shamed" on Twitter.

And across the blogosphere

And all over FB.

And in quite a lot of the mainstream media.

Convicted rapist supported by friends, family and across the internet. Poor guy, he just didn't UNDERSTAND that a girl consenting to sex with your friend doesn't mean you can fuck her.

I mean, it wasn't "rape rape," was it?

do all men do it pan?

have you found it yet, chairman?

All this talk of early sexulasation of the child being a factor. On R4 this evening some man talking about society had a role in pre-grooming those children.

What about pre-grooming men to be sexually predatory, to feel sexually entitled, to see women as sex toys? PLaying Grand Theft Auto and killing prostitutes as part of the game, consuming porn in every medium, magazine, internet, text message. If this does not turn every man into a rapist (and I don't believe it does, actually, just some) then wearing high heels does not turn girls into sex-fodder. And yet we have heard nothing for two days but society's influence on girls.

And on an on about 'is race a factor'? Who knows. Maybe for those particular men and their equally revolting unprosecuted cronies race was a factor. No-one with sense will assume that that means that ethnicity prescribes a compulsion to rape. What we do know was that the fact that they were men was a factor. So unless they think all men are rapists, why do those people ask whether race was a factor? It is a distraction.

Mostly, I am fed up with hearing man after man comment on this on the TV and the radio....and the occasional woman's voice, qualifying some defensive statement by a man, blaming 'pre grooming', defending his liberal credentials in the endless race talk, blaming parents...

Clothes are not 'sexually provocative'. I am damn keen on a pretty dress but I have never wanted to sleep with it.

If a person finds a child in any clothing 'sexually provocative', that person is a sick fuck.

It is pointless to talk about children's clothing as sexually provocative.

fish i agree these are hideous offenses, in think everyone agrees on that, but your not being made to feel guilty by default, i diddnt say what about that menz they are your words

chairman? No, not all men rape. Not sure why you are asking such a question.

I think it's in response to 'to stop rape, men need to stop raping'. As you will find from your research just now it's men who rape. Not all men. Just some. Others sexually assault, and do so against girls and women in alarming numbers.

crunchy frog, why was that addressed to me? am i your victim now?

pan, the phrase "The only way to stop rape is for men to stop raping" suggests that all men rape, you probobly dont find this offensive, i do!

chairman - it doesn't suggest that at all!

A simple comparison is like asking "will all men stop supporting Arsenal?" 99.99% of the male population will say 'no problem, that doesn't affect me because I don't support Arsenal anyway'.

"messy , i dont see your point, if a footbaler is guilty of rape and is being sent down for it in what way are the victims being blamed ?"

Because there was overwhelming public support for the footballer and disrespect and verbal abuse towards the victim. That's my point.

And FGS Chairman, no one here is saying all men are rapists. Will you please get over yourself? No one is blaming you personally. I know it feels shit and you feel defensive of your gender and I don't blame you. When I think of what whites have done to black people I alternate between an uneasy guilt and defensive "we're not all like that". But that's dumb, because it's not about me any more than this is about you. It's about a system that perpetuates a set of beliefs that allows rapists to believe they were entitled, just as Ched Evans probably still feels he did nothing wrong.

Of course it doesn't suggest that.
Why do so many feel the urge to divert attention from revolting crimes committed by men - because I think you'll find the number of women who are convicted of that offence to be vanishingly small - by moaning about how ill-treated men are?

would you see it in the same way if it was
"will all women stop nagging"
for example?

'Nagging' comes with a subjective interpretation. Rape doesn't.

chairman I was answering your question "in what way are the victims being blamed." What I outlined was what happened in the Ched Evans case.

i had no idea about the footbalers victim being abused , i dont follow football, i do watch the news when i can but i tend to yawn at anything to do with football.
anyway, in this debate , on question time , about these victims of rape , no one blamed the victims.

I think most intelligent people can see that making a statement like that, whilst badly worded, is not implying that all men are rapists.

Pan, I was watching your thread with interest BTW, but the responses were a bit sparse at the beginning, which was a bit disappointing. Then I came back to find it had gone I was a bit ! A bit radical for MN!

oh blu, send a variation of that post to any answers, it really says it all

I disagree that there was "overwhelming support" for the footballer rapist.

you know , it's crazy, if you actually look at what i said , (no one got blamed ) at that time we were still talking about question time , so someone finds another crime with another set of circumstances where the victim was abused and you all wade in against me , because i think rapevictims should be abused, it's those shorty skirts you know , how on earth can man keep there ramaging genitals in cheak with all that thigh on show!!!

messy thanks re thread. It just seems it's too much of a 'grown up' subject for MN right now! #maybeagainsometime