AIBU to treat male and female posters differently on feminism threads?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

First of all, I want to make this clear that this only applies to feminims threads.

When a woman poster posts comments where it is clear that she doesn't understand feminism or her arguments are contradictory, I am more than happy to spend lots of time gently explaining my point of view. I know I still have a lot to learn about feminism and part of that is hearing what other women have to say. And I know that when I started posting comments about feminism on the internet I didn't really understand it, and many of my comments will have been contradictory.

Some lucky women grow up being taught about feminism - usually by their mothers. But for most of us, we learn about feminism as adults and as we grow up. And as feminists I do think we owe it to women to explain our point of view gently. I know not all women will agree with us, but most of us became feminists because of other women taking the time to do this.

I feel quite differently about men posting on feminist threads. When men post comments that show they don't really understand feminism or are contradictory, often they just derail threads. On a feminist thread I don't feel women should have to take the time to explain to men about feminism or argue with men. It should be a space for women to discuss feminism. I should clarify that I am not talking about men being abusive, just men not understanding feminism.

But then when I post something to a man like - you obviously don't understand feminism and are not contributing anything, I just feel guilty. Is this just my socialisation telling me I should be nice to men coming through, but my basic analysis is correct? Or is my analysis wrong? I am genuinely interested in the views of other feminists. If you are a man and you post I will ignore you. This is not a thread about men. It is a thread about what as feminists it is reasonable for us to do.

Sorry this is such a long post.

abigail, your just having a really good time stirring the shit, shame on you, and do not dare accuse me of mysogny

Abigail and Foodunit, I am going to bow out of this now. This thread was really not started to educate men around misogyny or feminism. There are other threads for that

Oh the irony thechairmanmeow.

What a pity this thread has been derailed. Fwiw, I respond to posters not along gender lines but on how they post and how they interact with me.

Can I ask Nicholas if you are a man or woman?

Isn't it obvious from my NN? Other posters are often surprised that I'm male. Then again I don't chunter on about it, unlike Sanjeev some. :o

And it's poor form to flounce from your own thread btw...

Just didn't want to assume - and I hardly floucned. I was just polite enough to see you had posted and didn't want to ignore it. Shouldn't have bothered.

:o

Sorry eats I can't let it lay

On hearing the following:

"me being sexually harassed at work by a man who spoke in double entendre and suggestiveness, never directly to the point I could call him out on it, and would act offended when I didn't want him to give me a lift to the station after work, etc. The scenario felt a lot more sinister than I can communicate here. I actually felt very threatened and quite sick to the stomach with anxiety when I went to work."

if a man is met with a feeling of incredulity (because he has never felt threatened by a creepy, controlling predator like this himself)- and thinks 'that seems a little disproportionate - to be that upset by a bit of innuendo'... he has a choice, either:

a) Think: perhaps I missed something I'll re-read - oh yes, she does say 'The scenario felt a lot more sinister than I can communicate here' - yes I probably did miss something or can't quite imagine what it was like.

or

b) Judge (wrongly): she is probably just over-sensitive and the bloke was just being friendly and having a bit of banter to pass the time.

The first case (a) scenario, he is aware that as a man he is not familiar with the situation, has zero authority on the matter and much to learn, so treads carefully and sensitively. He will either not challenge the point, or sensitively ask for more clarification in a way that doesn't come across as prurient, to get a better understanding.

In the second case (b) he make assumptions and judgements that reinforce the oppressive rape culture females find themselves in. He assumes:

1. the woman [is defective as a person] has poor judgement and didn't read the situation for what it was
2. the woman [is defective as a woman] is over-sensitive, weak, not fun.
3. the man [is a good honest bloke] was just being friendly and was being wronged.

If he acts according to scenario (b) he is clearly misogynist - in spite of his claims - as all the prejudice implies he thinks women, particularly this woman is/are defective and inferior and men are just good honest blokes who get misunderstood.

So although I hear the humble apology - I don't buy it. You don't overcome prejudice like that in an instant.

Foodunit, no problem. Good post

hello again food unit
well, none of the above, what i did was sidestep commenting on your experience with that man in that office simply because i dont know you, him or what actually happend between you, so i made no assumptions about it. attall.
i regret saying what i said about banter, it was probobly better left unsaid while talking about sexual harrassment, and i certainly wasnt saying you were a wall-flower, just pointing out that different people react differently to banter, with no assmuptions on how you react to it.

if it makes you feel any better i really feel bad that i upset you especialy over a sensitive experince like this.

I recommend men read that book written by a lady in the US who hid as a man for ay ear. She joined a male sales force team for training, socialising, office banter etc. She also joined a male monastery. She writes very well about the differences in treatment and culture from how she was treated as a woman before. It was not always easier as a man for her. She had to put up with hearty back slapping and pretend to fit in more as one of the boys.

Xenai I have read extracts but not the whole book. I think patriarchy is damaging for both men and women by pushing people to fit into particular gender roles and ways of behaving. Its fine if its naturally you, but for many or most people, it isn't.

But I do think patriarchy is more damaging to women as a whole than men as a whole. Of course some individual women are not as badly affected, but as a group women are

Sorry Xenia, just read it again and you said for men to read the book

I have read it Xenia and it horrified me.

It was very interesting because it showed a woman in a man's shoes. I don't thjink all environments are like that - macho sales environments and plenty of offices these days have 50% women and men in many roles but it did describe the pressure some men are under, that not losing face, the being one of the boys. I can't remember the name of the book but it was interesting. Actually I found it interesting as th emother of 3 sons as much as a woman. As I am pretty successful and old enough not to have too many issues about things and can do what I like I do not really find much sexism in my own life at all on a personal level, but it was worth reading.