AIBU to treat male and female posters differently on feminism threads?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

First of all, I want to make this clear that this only applies to feminims threads.

When a woman poster posts comments where it is clear that she doesn't understand feminism or her arguments are contradictory, I am more than happy to spend lots of time gently explaining my point of view. I know I still have a lot to learn about feminism and part of that is hearing what other women have to say. And I know that when I started posting comments about feminism on the internet I didn't really understand it, and many of my comments will have been contradictory.

Some lucky women grow up being taught about feminism - usually by their mothers. But for most of us, we learn about feminism as adults and as we grow up. And as feminists I do think we owe it to women to explain our point of view gently. I know not all women will agree with us, but most of us became feminists because of other women taking the time to do this.

I feel quite differently about men posting on feminist threads. When men post comments that show they don't really understand feminism or are contradictory, often they just derail threads. On a feminist thread I don't feel women should have to take the time to explain to men about feminism or argue with men. It should be a space for women to discuss feminism. I should clarify that I am not talking about men being abusive, just men not understanding feminism.

But then when I post something to a man like - you obviously don't understand feminism and are not contributing anything, I just feel guilty. Is this just my socialisation telling me I should be nice to men coming through, but my basic analysis is correct? Or is my analysis wrong? I am genuinely interested in the views of other feminists. If you are a man and you post I will ignore you. This is not a thread about men. It is a thread about what as feminists it is reasonable for us to do.

Sorry this is such a long post.

I think you are right to say that on the feminism boards actually. Doesn't matter most other places

I'm a feminist and married to a man. I think a woman cannot be expected to keep more than one man informed and well-versed in feminism without wasting a disproportionate amount of her precious time - when she could be enjoying herself and/or overthrowing patriarchy instead.

So yes, when men come on feminist threads with confused, contradictory contributions I find it irritating.... not only because I feel more of my time is being taken up by taking care of men than I want, but also because men are usually unconsciously protecting their own entitlements (which female posters can't be doing - though they may be shooting themselves in the foot) whilst exhibiting annoying male postures of 'chivalrously protecting' posters who defend male interests, or taking the 'detached' (i.e.- patriarchal mainstream) 'overview' where they sanctimoniously profess their impartial, sensible, 'not-womanly confused', final word - which is of course WRONG!

LOL... Sanjeev, you'll be back - you know you can't resist the fem boards!!

No I wont............................damn!

" It should be a space for women to discuss feminism. I should clarify that I am not talking about men being abusive, just men not understanding feminism."

I think it should be a space for feminists to discuss feminism. And those who are genuinely interested in being feminists but who perhaps don't know how to get there.

"I think a woman cannot be expected to keep more than one man informed and well-versed in feminism without wasting a disproportionate amount of her precious time - when she could be enjoying herself and/or overthrowing patriarchy instead."

Now that really made me laugh out loud.

I'm sure MrFoodUnit is very happy too.

I agree with Seventh about Sanjeev's post and although I did respond to you politely Sanjeev, I did not respond the same way as I would if you were a woman.

Posting that after I said I would leave this discussion is a low blow, Eats. All of her points were wide of the mark - all of them.

Sanjeev, I was sure actually you would still be reading this thread - even if only on threads I'm on. So I honestly didn't post thinking you wouldn't see it. I have already said the bots I disagree with on her post. I do think you are right to say you are a man on the feminism threads - doesn't matter most of the time elsewhere. I always post info about myself if I know it could be seen as if I have an agenda by some posters - I would rather be upfront about that.

Not saying just you have an agenda, we all have. But just as in feminism threads I will say I am a radical feminist so people know my agenda and can judge on the basis of that, posting that you are a man allows people to understand your agenda and judge you on the basis of that.

Of course I am not naive. We all have agendas that on an anonymous internet forum we don't know each other have.

I have never had any trouble debnating things with men. Most British men believe in equality without discrimination under the law for men and women and fairness at home. That is feminism. I also spend a reasonable about of time supporting male rights after divorce and rights to stay home in an equal way with women. I don't think I would argue pointd differently if a man were there not a woman.

Its interesting what you say Xenia that most British men believe in equality and fairness at home. I suspect you make sure you surround yourself with decent men (and women) as I do. But on MN there seems to be a lot of women experiencing a lot of unfairness at home and in relationships where they are treated badly? Is this just because only women with problems in their relationships post about their relationships on MN?

I don't know and I honestly don't know if the experience you and I have (I know I am assuming yours from what you posted) of relationships with men and in particular the home are typical or some of the posts on MN are more typical?

I certainly stand by the first part that most men except a few religious nutters think women should have the vote and not be discriminated at work. I would have thought most men if asked think things ought to be fair at home. That does not mean all men (or all women) notice when things aren't fair and a load of women and men too can be pretty lazy and leave things to their other half.
I agree there are some groups where women seem to have to accept that they do more at home even if they are working similar hours at work and women need to be vigilant to ensure that does not happen to them.

thank you xenia , it's refreashing to hear that most british men belive in equality.

I am posting to disagree massively with the notion that 'most men(UK) beleive in equality'. It;s a pretty outlandish statement and flies in the face of every life experience that I have had.
And the 'religous nutters' is an absurd element. Discrimination is endemic and part of our 'culture' - most British men essentially want what makes life easy for them.

how is life back in the 1950's pan?

Most men pay lip service to equality. Their own privilege is largely invisible to them (as privilege generally is to the privileged)- so they wouldn't know where to begin to address the internalised misogyny and patriarchal indoctrination that has influenced them since birth.

FU - I'd have thought you don't have to use internalised misogeny nor patriarchial indoctrination to establish the on-going praticing of inequality in 2012 UK. Just about every index of social/economic obs. backs it up.

Sure pan but I was referring to the lip-service they pay to being 'committed to equality' without actually examining how their privilege/internalised misogyny/patriarchal indoctrination manifests in behaviour that is totally at odds with their claims. Basically, just because a man says he is committed to equality and believes he is committed to equality - doesn't mean he actually is committed to equality.

i am totaly commited to equality, but whats the point in saying that, you have clearly made up your minds that i'm not.
if my life has been privalidged it certianly doent seem like it, my life has been mostly at the school of hard knocks, deslecsic and for the most part no education after being 16, i do, however remember thinking that the girls at school were all cleaver, like nature had made them so. the idea that the boys had privalidge would have been laughable, both male and female teachers came down harder on boys, or at least thats how it felt, if anything the girls had privalidge.

thechairmanmeow
Since you have demonstrated in your post that you haven't examined your privilege over women - in fact you believe you are more hard done by, then yes - your 'commitment' is a delusion. You are what is euphemistically called a 'nice guy'.

I too have taken many knocks in my life, many of them entirely gender-based, but that doesn't mean I am not an oppressor of racialised people or disabled people. My commitment to equality is to try to have awareness of every racist, ablist, misogynist thought in my head, planted in there by my conditioning (and to counter these thoughts in my actions and decision-making) as well as to do what I can to remove barriers to equality for all. When a man shows commitment to this practice too, I believe he is committed to equality.

You can tell the difference when you are talking to a man who does!

Chairman, I too am a man (not asking for any special attention, just making it clear). You and I sound like we come from the same place - wanting to be fair and equal in the way that we treat people regardless of their sex etc.

If people talk about privilege in this thread, it doesn't mean that our life -yours or mine - has been a bed of roses. Far from it in many cases. It's more a general point that all other things being equal, us blokes have a lot of stuff loaded in our favour. Things like being likely to be paid more for the same job, which every survey will tell you. Most of the people in power are men - the government, the banks, the CEO's of major companies, so it must be easier for men to get to the top. That kind of thing.

So, don't take it personally. The important thing is that you strive in your life to be as fair and even-handed to everyone, regardless of their sex, colour or beliefs. You can't do much more.

Nice post Sanjeev. And I told you you'd be back

or rather!

I can never get too much of a good thing, Messy! Plus, I know where chairman is coming from - some of the terminology on here can seem a bit ambiguous at first. Thank you for the compliment though - seems even an old gimp like me can learn

i see what your saying sanjeev, and maybe being male does have it's priviledges, but some men being CEOs and more men being in power has priviledge for them, not for me, i work in construction, in 25 years i have come across 3 women so the equal pay thing doesnt apply to me either
FU i'm sure you, like me, have taken the hard knocks, if i was a woman i wonder how many of them i would think were gender based? i mean it's a nice way of veiwing it actually, it means it isnt your fault that that guy got the promotion, it's everyone elses and the systems inherent prejudice against women, i havent had an ideology to blame my hard knocks on.
as for not being disabled means you are by default opressing disabled people .....did you really say that? your going to have to explain that one.