New Trans thread as requested by HQs.

[oilfilledlamp]

Please forgive the intrusion but I've been out tonight and only recently got back. I wanted to respond to MadWomanintheattic earlier when she posted

"If I were an mtf trans (pre op or post op) the last place I'd want to fetch up is in a women's refuge, because of the potential for making other people feel ill at ease. But nothing is clear cut, really.

How often does this happen, really? Has there been any research into prevalence and motivation?

Bye though.

That old nonsense. I could be a born 'bloke' who is now a transwomen, how would you know?

And you know what? your fellow posters, hully and garlic disappeared pdq.

They left you. After making disparaging remarks. What does that say to you Mad?

Goodnight.

It says they were right and you are a troll.
And I shouldn't have wasted my time listening to you.

You live and learn.

Weirdly, that exact thing is what made me really unpopular on fwr back in the day, that annoying habit of wanting to listen to what people say and think.

Even if they happen to be a prostitute or trans.

I don"t care if you have two pene, tbh. Or none. Or whether you keep them in a jar to pull out and play with when you get bored.

That was kind of my point, but never mind.

My 'fellow posters'?

What. E. ver.

A few people who happened to be on a thread are somehow in cahoots? Dear god. Twenty minutes equals a quiche on mn, now? I'm still slightly at a loss as to what the cahoots were in aid of, though. Maybe you could enlighten me as to my/ our crime against humanity?

Other than not understanding a blardy word you said? Which, I suspect, says more about you than me or anyone else.

Okaaaaaaaaaaay.

I'm off to rl to try and get over trying to take you seriously.

Nice 'chatting' though. Given that you spoke to me for at least as long as I spoke to hully and garlic, I'll assume you and me are best buds and automatically kindred spirits, eh?

Bizarre.

All right there madwoman?

Shame, we had 500+ interesting and reasonably polite posts.

All good here.

It's just a bit sad when you get trolls who hide behind name changes come on to derail deliberately.

And even sadder when they claim to be regular fwr posters, because that's the sort of thing that gives the fem boards a bad name. and the thing that irritates the fuck out of the fwr posters themselves.

Never mind, eh. My fault for thinking she might have wanted to engage and was just expressing herself clumsily.

Nice to be the target of a bit of baiting anyway. Really nice.

Not sure why a desire for equality brings out such extreme reactions in people.

I mean, I get that it does, but usually people are willing to discuss their views. I get reet pissed off with likes of ed and whatnot, and now fwr posters are adopting their tactics?

I wonder if the conferences thing touched a nerve? It was just a little joke at the end, the glimpsing light thing. And was meant to loghten the mood. If that's what caused the whole ruck, it's plain weird. And makes me really sad.

Hi, back from work and caught up on the thread at last. Sorry to have left you up to your neck in idi strange people.

I was polite and yes a namechanger. On borrowed time actually but don't want to out myself.

Mad, no disrespect (as my autistic son would say, which usually means he's about to disrespect), but you have called me a bloke, then back to she, in that I was expressing myself clumsily.

Extreme reactions.

I expressed my view.

Sorry I didn't include the grin emotion but I do find it a bit 'horror movie'.

So what is it am I a 'bloke' or a what?

And realised that my farewell post had crossed with this:

"Again with the prejudiced remarks Annie?

Because somebody with a female body has an identity, she needs to lighten up.

Why do you constantly apply a standard to this group that you do not apply to others?

Why do you apply this standard only to people with female bodies?"

Intrigued as to how what I actually said has been so interpreted. It reads to me like someone who, having run out of random arguments, is flinging accusations in the hope that we'll go on the defensive and forget what point we were making. Reminds me depressingly of arguing with XH. I always could run rings round him in a straight debate - so he didn't debate straight. "Ah, so you think [insert wild distortion] then?" Er, no

For the record, I do happen to have a female body and a very strong sense of female identity. I constantly apply the standard of tolerance to myself and try to encourage others to do the same.

Run out of relevant arguments, I meant to say.

Damn, it's late.

C'mon Annie: 'For the record' - the refuge of a scoundrel.

Who are you quoting? Not me! but it looks like it is me. Correct this please or I WILL take legal action. I'm a mean bloke/bitch.

No horror movie emotions. You understand.

I don't care. I would treat you the same whether you were man, woman, mtf, ftm, or identified as a Martian.

Really.

You might want to have a read back if you think you expressed yourself clearly, though.

I only let on I wondered if you were a bloke because you were accusing me of being all dissing you with the hysteria stuff. I didn't need a historical explanation of the term. I then reverted to 'she' as I assumed that's what you were, given that you were still claiming you weren't a hairy handed trucker called dave that had just popped in for a quick troll.

Really, I don't care. And that is the entire point of the thread that you may or may not have read. Which you still haven't clarified. Nor have you explained why in the middle of a discussion about feminist conferences, you popped up with a banal comment on pink shoes. But I did try to work out what you might have meant. And even, apparently, got it right.

But I'm still at a loss why you popped up with such hostility to derail a discussion that you agreed with.

Just don't get it.

Why are you on borrowed time? I haven't reported you for obvious derailing or trollery? I haven't reported you at all, so if you're about to get booted off for causing bother in another username, it's Nowt to do with me.

See, now I'm baffled. What with the whole autistic son and intimate knowledge of fwr, you must have seen me about the damn place. Which means you must genuinely think that my opinions on this thread are out of order. And if that's the case, I would really like to know why. I'm a big girl. I can take it.

To leap in and derail is a bit petty. Have the courage of your convictions, and if you disagree, say why.

Letting fly with the whole 'gaslighting' stuff is a bit lame.

Robust debate I can take. Nonsense pisses me right off.

Read the thread and you'll find it. It wasn't you, unless you've namechanged since 5.30 this afternoon.

No 'bloke' would ever diss you with the hysteria 'stuff'. I never gave you a historical explanation of it either. Please correct this

Hairy trucker named dave - are you serious?

I've been most civil and I would suggest it is you who have been 'hostile'. Please don't delude yourself. When you repeatedly use a grin that looks like it's from a horror movie, it's done to intimidate and demean. You know this. That's why you use it.

Northern bias we've covered, there was no need to bring it up agaub unless you yourself wanted to make a cheap point.

You cannot, clearly, take robust debate. Otherwise you would not have posted:

"can't hack it".

Oh Annie, now you are putting in the time. How nice of you to do that.

Oh, whatever, scratchy.

Given that you are still hiding behind a name change I'll assume you are just here as a troll.

Can't be arsed to engage any more. You clearly don't want a sensible discussion about the actual topic, you just want to stop everyone discussing trans on mn.

Whatever.

You win.

Go and have a nice glass of something to celebrate your victory for equality.

Scratchy, you are Esperance and I claim my £5.

The string of grins was a deliberately childish retort to your weird demands. As far as I know, again means I find something funny. And your claims to expressing yourself clearly and being the rational one around here made me roar with laughter.

Mebbe start a campaign to get all emoticons banned? What with them being so evil and horror flickesque and all?

I have reported the thread now as I called you a troll, against talk guidelines.

Hopefully they delete that post and let the rest stay.

I'm offski to cook the dinner.

Me too it's all gawn a bit weird

Just ignore I-want-a-fight-scratchy.

simple.

The whole point of this thread was to have an interesting debate with pard.

Scratchy wants a fight, fine. Start yer own fight thread, dear.