New Trans thread as requested by HQs.

[oilfilledlamp]

Please forgive the intrusion but I've been out tonight and only recently got back. I wanted to respond to MadWomanintheattic earlier when she posted

"If I were an mtf trans (pre op or post op) the last place I'd want to fetch up is in a women's refuge, because of the potential for making other people feel ill at ease. But nothing is clear cut, really.

How often does this happen, really? Has there been any research into prevalence and motivation?

Calm down? Er, okay.

No evidence that I'm at all aeriated, tbh, just a bit baffled, sorry if that disappoints you? but maybe that was the intention... my apologies for trying to work whether you were making a sensible point. I won't be fretting about it, you needn't worry your little head.

I suppose it would be faintly preferable if you were being deliberately pointless, to you just not making sense, or being out of your depth...

Scratchy, love. I think you are out of your depth.

Are you on a different thread? Cos you're making feck all sense on this one.

Deliberate derailing troll?

But seriously, how wonderful of you to pop by and er, share your wisdom to silence debate. I'm really very grateful to you for saving us all from worrying.

You are without doubt the most eloquent and insightful poster around.

Well done you.

Cricket. I thought it would mnhq that shut down the trans debate, but apparently not. Just a random poster with something incomprehensible about pink shoes....

Cricket? Crikey!

But in actual fact my girls went to Brownies wearing a uniform, which was brown and yellow and (good goddess) they both choose the trousers.

Why do girls/women get a choice of clothing but boys/men do not. Please don't quote me the kilt. That's another thing altogether.

However, if my son had wanted to go to a fancy dressed party dressed as a ballerina I would have said yes. Because I would have said yes to my daughters if they had wanted to dress up as pirates.

Why would you pat me on the head in the manner of a small child? Are you being patronising?

I would never do that to anyone. Be they a small child or an adult.

My son was a ballet dancer. Why would there be something wrong with dressing up like one? They just don't call them ballerinas.... In fact, I don't think they even call the girls ballerinas in real life, it's just limited to, erm, pre school books...

Um. So, you are genuinely cross about gendered expectations then? Or are you genuinely making the point that males have it harder than females?

Important to clarify for everyone's sake, I think.

Mad, it's yellow and brown in the UK for brownie uniform.

Yes. I was returning the 'dear'.

Do you think it's harder for males? I think it's important for you to clarify before you make that assertion about another poster.

I wouldn't hold your breath. It's bad for your health.

I'm not going to nod and smile, pat on the head or call you dear.

Just so we're clear on that.

I know it is.

But it's blue and orange here. Why are you making a point about gendering colour? Colour is colour. Pink used to denote masculinity. dh has pink shirts. All of my kids live in hoodies and jeans. Ds took ballet.

I'm trying to work out what you're upset about and failing miserably.

You seem to be accusing the people on this thread of perpetrating some sort of gendered behaviour warfare that is personally affecting your son/ daughter? And I am entirely lost at what brought about your initial excitement.

Genuinely can't work it out.

And obv neither can anyone else, which is why they concluded you were just here to derail and generally shitstir.

Feel free to help out and clarify your thoughts on gendered behaviour and how this fits into the trans debate thou. There are plenty of threads that go over pinkstinks and suchlike....

And there will be no grin emotions either.

I think gendered 'rules' are appalling for everyone. I thought that frankly would have been fucking obvious if you'd read the thread

And I also said I have no intention of attempting to delineate who has it the hardest. There should be no gendered behaviour at all. Nothing. Nada.

I don't give a frick if David wants to wear heels with his sequinned miniskirt, Dorothy wants to wear full tails and bow tie, or everyone decides that it's simpler to all wear a green boiler suit.

Don't give a toss.

Have you actually read the thread at all? Or did you just jump in for a gunfight because you saw the word 'trans'?

Cos if that's the case, I can't really be arsed. read the thing and then comment sensibly.

Pink shoes indeed.

Meh.

I'll ignore that as there is the slightest possibly it was supposed to be a humorous cross post.

But it read like hully was right and you're just here to derail.

Apols for completely not getting the boys in pink shoes going to guides point.

Clearly (I think) you are saying that boys in pink shoes and going to guides should be fine, but it is not? Because society delineates by gender? And more so if you happen to be male?

I don't think that's especially true, tbh, but it is in the pink or blue shoes instance. And the access to scouting or guiding instance. Girls in those two particular cases have way more choice available.

I don't think it holds true for most of the rest of life, but I'm not sure I'm up to a direct societal comparison of the freedom or strictures of masculinity versus femininity to work out who has it better or worse. Entirely subjective anyway.

But I do agree if what you meant was simply that gendering behaviour ( do I want to wear pink shoes) is wrong.

Given that I'm over 40, I know how much more gendered some aspects of society have become over the last 20-30 years, whilst theoretically society has become more equal.

But if we're just agreeing that gendering behaviour is wrong, then, um, yeah

My bold. I so agree.

So why are you arguing with the three people who agree with you?

Sorry but this is an open forum, and not a cosy by the fire chat. There are places for that, are there not?

Was I intruding on a cosy chat between you and 'hully'?

Or did you all forget yourselves?

Gaslighting much Mad. You are upholding the the gender binary. As is garlic and Hully.

If you agree that gender is about behaviour and not innate then where does the 'I feel like a woman' come from?

Why are three people taking offence at me and making disparaging remarks?

As in

David Bowie

Pat on the head

Grin emotion

And so on.

Eh?
Ach, quote me where I've ever said 'I feel like a woman'?

You clearly don't know that I was called an MRA activist for claiming that I feel like a human being.

I don't feel like a woman at all - what the feck does a woman feel like?

No frigging idea. I think that was the entire point. To delineate and discriminate by gender is way out of whack.

Are you actually mistaking me for someone else?

This is a woman's rights thread and the word 'hysterical' has connotations.

If you had been a long time observer or poster you would understand that and not use that word.

Bye.

I KNOW!

And I used it earlier deliberately and put in brackets exactly the same as you.

I'm well aware of the connotations of the word 'hysteria'

It doesn't stop some behaviour being hysterical though.

And fwiw, I had been wondering if you were a bloke.

Long term poster?

Ah, feckit. If you knew how to do a search it might help your argument.