I don't appear to have the typical female experience I'd be interested in what some of you have to say

[hathorinareddress69]

Not a thread about a thread but on another thread I realised that I don't seem to have had the typical female experience, and I just wondered what you thought (since LRD suggested this was not a scary place)

I don't seem to have had the experiences that some of the feminists have - I don't feel the need to share with females, I never had a man leer or wolf whistle or try to look up my skirt.

My best friend is a man and I can (and do) discuss anything with him and he does with me.

Am I that abnormal?

But an individual acts in context, hathor.

Thelast - that's sort of why I started the thread.

I'd been viewing it as him being an arse, not as part of a group mentality - his whole family are like it, males and females in equal measure.

It is not an exaggeration to say I hate every single one of them to the bottom of my heart and if I ever had an opportunity to do them ill in some way which would not harm my children I would do so without a seconds thought.

But the thing is. The hurtful nasty things that were done to me by the women, the ignoring me, the never ever speaking to me, the belittling my dress sense, the behaviour of my kids, the laughing at me, the putting me down - it's just as bad.

What I'm trying to say is they are all a bunch of fuckwits. Every single one of them. Even the women.

Auntie X who told DD2 that I was going to hell because I don't go to church and I didn't stay married to her daddy.

Auntie Y who considered it a successful visit if she could get through a visit to my home where I had cooked for all of them, without speaking to me.

Ex-MIL who called me vile unpleasant names.

and the rest.

And I've outed myself.

And I don't give a fuck.

Well I was very rude...

I am really really glad you have found someone who treats you well, and you're right it's about power not gender.

It does appear to be a group of people with strong ideas on how women should behave, and both women and men are upholding that.

But I have to be honest - I think that you need to concentrate on yourself as an individual right now, rather than trying to take on wider issues. For whatever wider reasons, you personally have been subjected to behaviour which is utterly repugnant. I'm glad that your own DP is a proper partner who treats you as any human being has the right to expect.

I lost my temper and i'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that. I never lose my temper

Actually the hardest thing has been getting the ex out of my head.

The physical stuff - it heals.

But the getting him out of my head has taken much much longer.

And DP is great. Really. He's one in a million. But then he thinks the same of me. Which took me an awful long time to get my head around.

I am so sorry to hear that they did those things to you, hathor. And that you received no justice. I hope that you have found/ can find some peace and that they are not in a position to hurt you mentally or physically again.

Just a small answer to your op -feminists would be able to suggest a political analysis for all of the situations that you describe, although I appreciate that this would be unwelcome and unwanted on this thread.

But you have every right to be angry. And every right to explore your feelings surrounding being a woman/ performing femininity/ pondering whether you were missing something, some intrinsic part that everyone else had or understood

It might be messy now, but maybe cathartic later?

I know that Aye - as I said, that's sort of what the thread was about - how does it square with being a feminist issue when they are all a shower of fuckwits?

And because I don't have female friends particularly, I don't get the "sisterhood" element (and if that has offended anyone I apologise in advance).

And what I meant with the "sarcy wink" that caused such offence was, is it me, is it because I'm not seeing something that's there? Am I being blind to it? Am I out of kilter?

Not that anyone else was.

hathor I think that your experience has been so extreme that it defies a feminist anaysis, and any attempt to package it as a such would be offensive.

I sparked at your vibe phrasing because my experiences were very much to do with being female- but they were minor.

Ironically I stay away from the feminist boards because of the binary nature of many of the arguments and only came across this one because it was on most active.

But then that's making my experience more in some way than anyone else's and I don't see it like that.

it's always wrong. Always.

I don't think I'm making any sense.

You are making sense.

I don't think there is a hierarchy with this sort of violence/ intimidation.

Some things are just wrong.

Some things are complicated in context because the perpetrator has internalised superiority and the need to control as part of a wider cultural experience, but some people (men and women) are just nasty pieces of work. Your ex's family sound hideous.

They are awful. Go look on the letters I will not write thread.

And actually that's an excellent way to put it "wider cultural experience" - they are culturally conditioned to be nasty and horrible.

Or at least that's how I see it.

They think they're perfect and everyone else is wrong. Any one who doesn't think as they do is wrong. Like me.

i am very sorry for your experiences.

you say that you wanted to explore the feminist side of it - you keep saying it wasn't because you were a women but because he could and he would have done it regardless of your gender.

but the only reason he could was because of your gender and the position that put him in by being your husband and being able to abuse you and conceal it and have the back up of his family and have certain power over you.

did he ever do this kind of thing to a man? did he ever do it to anyone other than a woman? would he have done to this to a man and expected to get away with it impunity? would he have felt such rights and power over men or just over 'his' woman?

his understanding of what he had the right to do to 'his' wife if she didn't do what he wanted is going to have been informed by patriarchal beliefs that are still very fresh in our history as perfectly acceptable but now illegal and taken mroe seriously.

He has belittled and put men down and been horrible to them. Which he also did to me.

He has been racist.

He raped me, which he could not have done if I had not been a woman, but I am quite sure if he had been living in a house with a man who wasn't toeing the line, he would have humiliated them. What he did to me he did as a consequence of biology.

So it's not just that he did it because I am a woman - or at least that's what I think. But I don't know. Am I wrong?

And the women in his family are horrible. Just vile. I could tell you stories about them that would shock you all to the core.

and i'm sad for you taht you haven't experienced sisterhood - many people i know who have been victims of domestic and sexual violence have found sharing with other women who have been through the same and know how it feels really helpful. sadly this IS an experience that a lot of women share.

only a woman who has been raped knows how it feels to be a woman who has been raped. only a woman who has been tortured by her husband knows how that feels. only a woman who has been through an abortion... so many things.

there are shared experiences whether you've felt the need to talk about them with women or not. for example when women share their experiences of their care on labour wards and that information is collated and analysed there is a result to be deduced and maybe pressure to change things - by collecting and analysing the shared experiences of a load of women (who may never speak to each other) a picture of labour care experience is gained.

likewise domestic violence and abuse - when you gather together the experiences of women you find them very similar and when you gather up how their abusive partner behaved you find them very similar and you can start to build up a picture such as the 'red flags' people talk about here which comes out of the rich value of women's shared experience.

i'm going on too much.

you sound really triggered - do you have a relaxation technique you can do or a good friend you can call or a nice hot bath to sink into? hope you can calm yourself and get centred and sleep for the night.

I just don't understand how anyone new can come on here who isn't fully au fait with feminism and post a clear newbie post, looking for advice and discussion, and get shot down in flames, aggressively, even when they apologise.

It's not very welcoming.

And it certainly isn't sisterhood.

whose shooting you down now? i'm taking the time to talk to you.

you said things that upset people and they reacted - just as you have been upset and have reacted. such is life with human beings in it. especially human beings who have been very hurt by abusers/rapists/violent husbands through no fault of their own.

I know that SAF and I didn't mean it at you. And I apologise. Again. To everyone.

This whole thread has ended up really upsetting me.

incidentally you said up there that he treated you the way he did because of biology - that's what is meant by 'because you're a woman' - your biology! and it's what we share.

he might still be a wanker to other men who he's not scared of but how he treated you was all to do with your gender. for a woman he chose physical violence, sexual violence, etc

i think lots of people are upset and triggered BUT we're all grown ups who've been through bigger stuff than threads. people, including you, will calm down and get out of their triggered states and still be grown ups who can handle disagreeing without the world ending.