France: Le Pen proposes that three abortions would be state-funded. Subsequent abortions would not.

[Greythorne]

ok, she is a racist and an extremist

But what bothers me is that some of my friends, usually right-thinking, apparently agree with the above

Help me marshall my thoughts to destroy this fucked up 'idea'.

Thx

Women who get...

Posie
I don't think 'sluts' either. My point is that 'sluts' is the message she is conveying by making this into a 'one or two unwanted pregnancies is fine, but beyond that, you need to pay [literally]'. Her message is 'good girls don't need to pay, bad girls do.'

I feel that if a woman is having repeated abortions then there is something seriously wrong and she needs help. The type of help depends on the individual.

What is wrong is to lump all women who have an abortion together.

I would love to know the rates of multiple abortions. My feeling is that women who have 3+ abortions must be a tiny minority. Which makes this kind of rhetoric all the scarier because it is not actually about saving the state money, it is only about slating women.

According to the source of all knowledge [citation needed], the failure rate for condoms in 'typical use' is about 15% per year. Very back-of-the-envelope calculation would suggest that after five years of 'typical use' about one in five hundred women would have experienced four or more condom failures. That doesn't necessarily mean four abortions or even four pregnancies, of course, but it does make me wonder if the number of second-or-more abortions might be quite high even without bringing mental health or coercion into the picture.

Also lessons (for both sexes) on how to use contraception properly would likely be more effective in reducing the abortion rate than economic incentives or punishments. The difference between the 'correct use' and 'typical use' failure rates is horrifying.

Erm, well I went to school with girls sadly who used abortion as a form of contraception so indeed some limits are needed.

I'm trying to think of a situation where a woman would need that many abortions.

It's a "moving the overton window" statement isn't it.

The very raising of this "issue" and getting everyone to talk about it - in a way that many people will think "well actually that sounds fair enough" - shifts the public consciousness slightly.

Same as Dorries is doing over here with her ideas.

Tactics have been learnt from the US.

"Erm, well I went to school with girls sadly who used abortion as a form of contraception so indeed some limits are needed. "

You see my response to that would be:

• Who is having sex with these (underage?) girls
• Why are they not using contraception
• How has this situation come about, what can we do to improve things for these girls

Rather than. Oh look we'll stop giving them abortions when they ask for them.
Sounds like there were real issues with the school / locality which needed addressing.

Mainly it was boys the same age, otherwise I'd be more concerned.
It smacks more of being too stupid to protect themselves properly than exploitation.

Well those girls and boys needed some serious sex education and fast.

Forcing these girls to have children they didn't want wouldn't have solved anything.

I am surprised that that many girls having multiple abortions all from the same school didn't trigger some kind of investigation.

I said 'themselves' that means both sides , STI's affect both.

Not really sardine, where I grew up had the highest teen preg rate in europe for like 10 years no one batted an eyelid.

At what point did I say I didn't want them to be educated? at that age PHSE should be going on ayway.

I think for some women/girls the thought of 'I'll have to pay if I have another' may make them think a little bit.

Its not all about education though is it? Education can't cure careless and lazy.

I don't think abortion is something anyone goes into lightly or needs to be "made to think about".

I dunno - careless and lazy generalizations can be cured if you bother to get educated. Would you like us to try and help?

Well, a recent study by the NSPCC found that 1/3 of pregnant teens were in or had been in abusive relationships during pregnancy. They recommend a complete rethink of the teen pregnancy prevention strategy - basically it's quite possible that a lot of young women who become pregnant have no real control over when they have sex, with whom and whether or not contraception is used. And yet, we still keep bashing them for being lazy, feckless and stupid. Oh, and that they'll "think twice" if they have to pay for the next abortion. Uh huh, sure.

Hoebag, do you also agree with people paying for treatment for conditions that are wholly or partially self inflicted?

I'm not denying what you lot are saying,

you can't seriously be denying though that some situations are through lack of thought more than anything else.

Not everyone is a victim.

No but why this particular group of people? Sounds to me like picking on the vulnerable.

I can't speak for Le Pen but I'd say the same for many things.

I still find it shocking that many girls from one school were having multiple abortions before age 16. I am assuming under 16 as they are at school, and are girls, and the underage? question wasn't responded to earlier, and that sadly girls who are having multiple terminations and no-one bats an eyelid and come from and area with a very high pregnancy rate amongst girls which correlates with low socio/economic group means that I doubt staying at school past 16 would have been that common for the group we are talking about.

So it's underage girls all from the same school, many girls having more than 3 abortions and no-one batting an eyelid.

That is just utterly shocking and to blame the girls is appalling.

Girls are girls are girls.

The reason for a very high pregnancy rate in one area and a very low pregnancy rate in another is not that the girls in one area are "careless and lazy" but not the other.

Generally it is not people that are different, but their circumstances.

Not all were underage some were,

theres nothing appalling in suggesting that some people just cba to use contraception, its reality.

many adults are the same too.

The school wouldn 't have known , their parents didn't know back then it was largely kept confidential and its easy to lie about your age.

Hoebag - I believe your statement about the high preg rate at your school and I was wondering if the reason is something like this:

Young teenagers often live in a society where the GPs (doctors) and people who run the local chemists' know them and their parents, so the kids won't go buy condoms or sort out other forms of contraception because word might get back to mum and dad. Much easier to head up to the (more anonymous) hospital and get a quick morning-after pill or an abortion at a later stage if necessary.

That seemed to be the situation at my cousin's school in a small-ish town.... :( I remember her once painting the people who routinely go for morning-after pills (rather than waiting to see if they're PG) as overly cautious!!

By the way I don't think there should be a limit on number of free abortions you're entitled to (in answer to OP)...