France: Le Pen proposes that three abortions would be state-funded. Subsequent abortions would not.

[Greythorne]

ok, she is a racist and an extremist

But what bothers me is that some of my friends, usually right-thinking, apparently agree with the above

Help me marshall my thoughts to destroy this fucked up 'idea'.

Thx

I meant, OK, I expect nothing from her

Just to clarify

On the face of it, I can't see that state-funded abortions is a bad thing.

Are you against the state funding any abortions, or think they should fund more than 3?

I think abortion should be state funded. Full stop. No limits.

But I hate the rapist argument. It makes it seem like good girls who get raped can have a legimate abortion but bad girls who have sex willingly should not.

How many women would this actually affect? Sounds like a pr stunt

How many women would this actually affect? Sounds like a pr stunt

Ok, now I see where you're coming from.

I'm all for state funded abortions, but do wonder how many women actually have 3 or more? Like mercibucket I think it'll affect only a small number of women.

How does her suggestion compare to the existing situation in France?

Oh, that seems really worrying. We can all think of 'what if' situations (what if the foetuses had conditions incompatible with life/damaging to the woman, what if the woman was raped, what if the woman was underage), but basically this sort of limit seems to be always to boil down to 'how do we tell the good girls from the bad girls, because this is a matter of morality'. And that neatly sidesteps the question of whether the government has rights over any woman's body.

Frankly, if someone is pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy for the fourth time, and they are financially in need of a funded abortion ... can you guess at what their life might be like? It's not going to be a bed of roses, is it? But now they'll get to feel ashamed and will do desperate things.

I agree though that anyone who has multiple terminations deserves proper, thorough counselling (I don't think I'd call it an investigation as that sounds accusatory). I think the state of counselling for abortions is piss poor no matter what number, but it's inhumane to see someone have more than one and not give them access to counselling.

At present, in France, all abortions are state-funded (reimbursed).

I agree it is a headline-grabbing PR stunt. But it is one of those soundbites which is so destructive to women.

According to this PR manufactured crap:

Women are getting serially pregnant (subtext: sluts)
Women are getting multiple abortions (subtext: immoral, selfish women)
Women cost the state ??? due to their wanton fucking and seeking of abortions

Need I go on?

Cross post.

I wouldn't dismiss it just because it won't affect many women. Point is, they'll have introduced the concept and legal situation that you can limit the number of abortions women are 'allowed' to have. Right now it's three. But you've opened the gateway to reduce that to two, then one - then what?

And it also has the effect that publicizing this proposal will make people think 'hmm, women are having more than three abortions - how shocking! Clearly there's a problem with morality'. That association between abortion, shock and morality will stick. And that's not an association you want in people's minds.

LRD
Quite

myname - what counts as forced, though? I would worry about women in abusive relationships, or women whose mental health was poor.

There was a heartbreaking story a while back in the news about a woman who kept trying to have a baby she could keep, but they kept being taken away from her because she had learning difficulties and wasn't deemed able to cope. What about someone like that? If they sought abortion ... yes, it'd be tragic, but I don't know you could blame the woman. If she's not able to care for a child, she may not be able to grasp the consequences of what she's doing.

I've had two accidental pregnancies (both of my children). Can easily see how three could happen.

Ah, so this is reducing rights rather than increasing them.

Nasty piece of slut-shaming on her part, then.

The financial cost of unwanted children being brought into the world are far higher than the cost of multiple abortions.

However I do think that women who have multiple abortions need councelling. However the type of councelling needs to be appriopate to the circumstances.

A woman who repeatly gets pregnant due to being an idiot has different needs to a woman who has had a sucession of pregnancies terminated for foetal malformality.

Maybe in some cirucumstances the third abortion should only be free on condition of having a long term contraceptive like the mirena coil or an injection. However I think gentle persausion rather than legistation is the way forward.

Sunny
Yes, currently there are no limits on abortion up to 10 weeks.

I don't get the logic.

It is not a good thing for somebody to have lots of abortions. If a woman has had 2 or 3 abortions perhaps she should be referred for counselling and sex education classes.

To stop state funding for someone in this position just means that there are more unwanted babies being born into less than ideal situations. I don't understand.

Bonnie
I quite agree

I wonder what equivalent punitive measures she us suggesting for men who father children and do not support them?

First of all, as a money-saving exercise, it's hardly worth it, surely? The number of women who will have had repeated abortions is likely to be very low, I don't know a single woman who would regard an abortion as being a walk in the park and who would happily have more than three and skip merrliy into the clinic, secure in the knowledge that the state is paying.

The more likely scenario, with a woman who has had that number of terminations, is that she is likely to have had a very, very tough life. I would imagine for example, 1st time, pregnant at 15, can't countenance the idea of looking after a baby, 2nd time pregnant to an abusive man and can't countenance the idea of raising a child with him, and third time, happily pregnant but baby has severe abnormalities. If a woman had had that much on her plate in her lifetime, I wouldn't want to deny her any state help at all.

Oops, sorry myname, I'm with you now. And yes.

Women who gets serially pregnant does not make me think subtext sluts, it makes me think subtext mental health issues or abuse issues (ie could be victims of abuse).

However given that she's right wing she probably hates women and so I agree that this is more likely to 'make the sluts pay' as opposed to support women.