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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Equality at home - Can this really be achieved?

999 replies

marga73 · 06/04/2012 22:55

There is an issue I've been wanting to discuss for a long time. It's the issue of equality inside the house.

Even though women now work and are able to gain respectable positions in the workplace, and we can say that some level of equality has been attained, it seems to me that once they have children, women lose more than men in terms of work opportunities and financial independence. And all because the house and the children still seem to be a "woman's job".

It's all great to find women who are happy being the SAHP, but don't these women feel sometimes that being 100% financially dependent on their husbands is frustrating? Doesn't this situation make them feel trapped and powerless? Is it OK for women to sacrifice their independence for the sake of their children and the house keeping?

I work part-time, and have two small children, and still feel trapped sometimes. I'm grateful in many ways that my husband earns enough so we don't have to worry about paying for mortgage, food, childcare etc - and I contribute to this too - but I feel it's far beyond from the ideal I had when I was young and it really annoys me. If I'm honest, it makes me very angry.

I would like a society where men and women work part time, share domestic tasks 50/50, and look after their children part time, and therefore pay for everything on equal terms. Is this too much to ask in the fierce capitalist society we live today? Am I naive to think that should be the case?

OP posts:
amillionyears · 21/04/2012 16:00

Combative means eager or disposed to fight.You do such lovely things.

wordfactory · 21/04/2012 16:01

xenia you say onlt the inadequate couples feel somehting has got to give...yet something most definitely did give in your family. Your DH was a teacher!!!!!

You were not part of some power couple!!!!!

Was he inadequate for not having a high flying career earning millions?

Cos here's the thing, most of us, men or women, could manage perfectly well if our partners worked school hours and during term time. We could do whatever we liked.

The question we're asking, and you are resolutely avoiding, is can both parents work long hours and still have the sort of family life worthy of the name? And if the answer is no, why is it women and not men who generally agree to curb their career.

The answer that the menfolk are all sexist is too simplistic. This pattern is part of a much wider problem. And one that you're probably not qualified to comment on since you were never in a relationship with someone of equal working status and earming power as many of us are/have been.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 16:01

And surely the ideal is that we love everyone.

Beachcomber · 21/04/2012 16:08

Sisterhood isn't about being a wimp, nor is it about loving all women.

It is about respect, solidarity, empathy, honesty and acting on one's politics (i.e. not just as an individual for one's own advancement). It takes strength and force and conviction.

Again, the most basic feminism.

BrandyAlexander · 21/04/2012 16:11

word, can both parents work long hours and still have the sort of family life worthy of the name? Answer is yes in mine and dh's case and while we may not be the norm, I really dislike the "mumsnet" assumption (and I am not saying that you're saying this btw) that either it is entirely impossible or that my dcs will turn out to be damaged goods. I think that these assumptions are both anti-feminist and send out a really bad message to other women, especially young women.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 16:12

feminists should try and love everyone. Everyone should try and love everyone.Nobody, absolutely nobody should be putting somebody else down.Ithink Xenia cannot actually see that she does put others down.

WidowWadman · 21/04/2012 16:19

amillionyears - if I had only the smallest smidgeon of doubt of the quality of my children's nursery, if I didn't know that I could pop in there any time, and if I didn't see how happy and well bonded my children are to their carers, I wouldn't use this nursery. And for that it doesn't matter whether it's 5 or 50 hours.

WidowWadman · 21/04/2012 16:20

"feminists should try and love everyone" - I don't see much love for everyone on the feminist boards, but rather the opposite.

BrandyAlexander · 21/04/2012 16:26

The OP raised a very interesting question. My opinion is that young women ought to be reading this and realising that they have the right to expect equality at home irrespective of who goes out to work and that it is within the power of individuals to do something about it. However the quality of the debate has somewhat deteriorated and quite frankly it just irritates me when these threads end up invetibaly being focused on sahm v wohm or on some of Xenia's more extreme views as you then end up with more and more people spouting more and more shit to defend their life choices.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 16:29

I love you WidowWadman, I love you Xenia.

Beachcomber · 21/04/2012 16:30

Of course feminists shouldn't try to love everyone. Feminism is a political movement that fights male oppression of women - it isn't a global group hug with the laydeez being kind and caring to everyone in the world no matter how much of a misogynist they are.

What a bizarre thing to say.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 16:30

and everyone else, and exoticfruits who is about somewhere and feels putdown.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 16:34

Wow Beachcomber, I didnt know that.We should not like what some men, and women for that matter do,in fact hate it, but we should still try to love them.

Beachcomber · 21/04/2012 16:42

Amillionyears I think I'll pass on trying to love men who batter and rape or on pimps or porn producers. There are better ways to expend one's energy in order to support the politics of feminism.

EssentialFattyAcid · 21/04/2012 17:01

I think that a standard working week of 30 hours would be a good step forward. That way it would be easier for both parents to work what would be the new "full time" hours, and there would be 20% more jobs to go around for people who currently don't work.

Sorted.

WidowWadman · 21/04/2012 17:23

I also think everyone should get his own moon on a stick.

Xenia · 21/04/2012 17:38

Yes both parents work long hours and still have the sort of family life worthy of the name. My children's father worked to 6pm and then some evenings. He worked Saturdays. I often worked Sundays. I know lots of couples where both work hard. I have never said I am or was in any sense a power couple.I don't think I've even said much about myself or what I do. However I know a lot of couples where both work full time and have a good family life.

The point I was ttrying to make above and novice makes is that it is a dangerous anti feminist myth that is propagated - that if you both work something has to give and children suffer and that of course martyr mother must give up economic work and be at home. That is the sort of rubbish which is peddled to keep women down. That you (or rather women but neve rmen) cannot "have it all". When in fact of course you can - women always have and always will have work and children and indeed both are probably needed for a balanced happy life whether you are male or female and whether you're making good money or not much at all.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 17:42

I presume you block out comments you dont like. And still no apology for exoticfruits.I would seriously like you to think about where you are going with your life. Maybe you are at a crossroads.

WidowWadman · 21/04/2012 17:52

If you demand apologies from Xenia, would you also please apologise for the suggestion that I would wilfully expose my children to the risk of "untoward things happening"?

WasabiTillyMinto · 21/04/2012 17:57

Well said WW. the double standards on this thread!

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 17:59

I never said that!Not in a million years. I am sorry if that is how you read it.
Of course you are not wanting to wilfully expose your children to that risk.But it does so happen.If it is not yourself, we have to be careful about who we leave them with.And there are not many numbers of people who we can trust 100 per cent.

amillionyears · 21/04/2012 18:03

And I realise many many people have no choice about using childcare.
And I feel so very sorry for those families caught up in childcare that has gone wrong.
And if I lived near you, dont know where you live, I would give you a hug.

WidowWadman · 21/04/2012 18:14

Oh, for fuck's sake, seriously. The majority of abuse and mistreatment happens in informal setting, with a person of trust like a family member or relative.

I don't deny that there have been a few widely publicised cases of abuse in a commercial childcare setting, but really, it doesn't follow on from there, that putting children into a commercial childcare setting is any more dangerous than, say, sending them to school.

And all your love and hugs really just makes me want to boak.

swallowedAfly · 21/04/2012 18:48

"feminists should try and love everyone. Everyone should try and love everyone.Nobody, absolutely nobody should be putting somebody else down"

i would gladly put down serial rapists and child abusers, despots who lead mass genocides etc. i'd do it personally for the greater good.

won't be giving them any loving though.

swallowedAfly · 21/04/2012 18:49

this love everybody thing doesn't seem to fit with thinking the majority of people on the planet can't be trusted to take care of our children in a professional setting Confused