Equality at home - Can this really be achieved?

[marga73]

There is an issue I've been wanting to discuss for a long time. It's the issue of equality inside the house.

Even though women now work and are able to gain respectable positions in the workplace, and we can say that some level of equality has been attained, it seems to me that once they have children, women lose more than men in terms of work opportunities and financial independence. And all because the house and the children still seem to be a "woman's job".

It's all great to find women who are happy being the SAHP, but don't these women feel sometimes that being 100% financially dependent on their husbands is frustrating? Doesn't this situation make them feel trapped and powerless? Is it OK for women to sacrifice their independence for the sake of their children and the house keeping?

I work part-time, and have two small children, and still feel trapped sometimes. I'm grateful in many ways that my husband earns enough so we don't have to worry about paying for mortgage, food, childcare etc - and I contribute to this too - but I feel it's far beyond from the ideal I had when I was young and it really annoys me. If I'm honest, it makes me very angry.

I would like a society where men and women work part time, share domestic tasks 50/50, and look after their children part time, and therefore pay for everything on equal terms. Is this too much to ask in the fierce capitalist society we live today? Am I naive to think that should be the case?

'I like the idea of assinging certain tasks to him. That would probably work best for us.'

Worked for us, this is a very Aspie household, clarity and clear boundaries and expectations are more useful that endless petty negotiations about 'I did this so you should clean the bathroom' It also helps to choose the bits you prefer if possible. I love cooking and hate ironing so it works for me.
The grotty bits that no one wants, we do on a rota, cleaning the bathroom for example.

nice to hear some are making it work

i would happily clean the bathroom and kitchen forevermore if i didn't have to cook or iron dust - so if you're ever for turning you can come and live here

I still can't see why going out to paid employment is in any way 'better'-I am just hugely grateful that it has never been down to me.

i don't think anyone is going to force you to get a job exotic - though it's worth considering what you'd do if your dh left you or died obviously. unless you're independently wealthy you can never guarantee you won't have to work and having been out of work for a long time doesn't help your job finding or earning prospects.

or for example if he developed a chronic illness and you couldn't rely on him to do the earning anymore.

lots of ways things can change.

He did die suddenly-the sad thing is that you are much better off as a widow than married.
Obviously with chronic illness you just change and go to work.

Dh and I both work full time and have equality in the home. Neither of us are lazy and we just do what needs to be done. He tends to do all of the cooking as I hate doing it and he enjoys it whilst I do most of the laundry. It all works out the same except he does all the gardening because this bores me.

'just change and go to work' - not quite as simple as that is it? what would you do? would your skills be up to date? would you have references, experience etc? would you be happy to clean loos for minimum wage? etc.

not saying you wouldn't be but that obviously there are implications for taking a long time out of employment as a sahm when it comes to returning to work.

sorry just re-read your post exotic - he died suddenly? really sorry if that's the case - took it as a typo the first time sorry.

I have income protection SAF, and life insurance and all the extra bits that mean come chronic illness or death my children are protected from the financial consequences. My dad did the same for my mum, if he dies first she will not be short of cash.

In an accident-don't worry, it was a long time ago and partly the reason why I re evaluate life and working for money comes pretty low.
If you have qualifications you can get back to work if circumstances change. The important thing is to get the qualifications first. If you do voluntary work you can get the references and you have the experience.
Paid employment and career isn't the 'be all and end all'.

It also means -get your wills written and insurance up to date.

Agreed, you never want to think the worst will happen, but forcing yourself to plan ahead will save so much grief for your loved ones.
Didn't have any of that until DD, then security became important. Yes to good memories and love and time spent being so much more important that a lot of cash.

Equality doesn't have to mean doing the exact same thing. Equality. Will come from different activities eg childcare, housework and employment from being equally valued. Eg your ideal model assumes a couple raising DCs but what about single parents?

I was watching Come Dine With Me last night and there was a young guy, had to be in his 20's, who did not do a bloody thing around his house. His house slave fiancée did all the cooking, washing and cleaning, and she worked full time.

I agree that being equal doesn't mean doing exactly the same. If someone has a partner who doesn't do anything around the house it means that they let them get away with it at the very start and have continued. Why on earth did the fiancée do all the cooking, cleaning etc?

I think I know what you're trying to say OP, though some people are bound to get their backs up and think you're SAHM-bashing.

There are many inequalities still in society which place the burden of domestic responsibility on the woman. In an ideal world, it would be 50/50 as to whether a mum or dad was the SAHP, with no assumptions as to who is would be, and the decision would me made on a family's individual circumstances.

But as things stand, men tend to earn more, so more often than not the pressure is on the women to be the SAHP if a family decides that it's important to them that the children are at home those first years. And the inequality between the couple will widen as the women gives up her career and the man continues to progress. Also, societal pressure also mean that men, at least of our generation, have been raised with the belief that it is their job to work and provide for their families, so taking the decision to stay home doesn't come without some serious mental attitude adjustment, not to mention the flak they may receive from family and friends.

It's also more common for women to go part-time once they have children, so women can be seen as more of a 'risk' to employers or looked up as not taking their careers are seriously as full-time male counterparts. So until it becomes more commonplace for both the man and woman to drop hours after the child is born, so that they will have the same amount of time at home and can share housework and childcare equally, women will still lose out career-wise, even if they do go back to work.

So I think the change in attitude needs to come from the business sector first, unfortunately. The pay gap needs to be eliminated, and there needs to be equal expectation that men and women will take career breaks or drop hours after children arrive. Only then can families truly make the best decision based on their own wishes and circumstances, not have to decide based on unfair financial and social pressures.

As for getting men to do their share of the housework - well, that's a different thread altogether, but any women than puts up with a man who will sit on his arse while she keeps the house is a mug. In the hours when both are at home, both should be spending equal amounts of those hours engaged in maintaining the family home.

Sorry for all the typos! [bublush]

OP - somebody has to take care of the house and bring up the children. Why are you angry that you are doing this? Would you prefer (a) your DH to be doing this (while you worked FT, presumably) (b) a third party (nanny and/or housekeeper) to be doing this?

Houses don't look after themselves and children certainly don't bring themselves up. Think through the choices and work out whether the one you have made is the one you prefer, or not. And don't be deceived by the lie you were told when growing up that you could have a breadwinning career, your DH could have a breadwinning career and you could have a happy family too.

god that reminds me i have to make a will - keep putting it off. as a single parent with no father on birth certificate if i die apparently my son goes straight into care rather than to family whilst they assess everything unless i write a will and name family as his guardians in the event of my death.

must post about it in legal actually. you just never know what's round the corner do you. sorry for your loss exotic.

bonsoir i think she said ever so clearly that what she would prefer is to share that work and the work of earning money. which is fine. i really don't think she was advocating frogmarching sahms who were happy to be such into the jobcentre.