I didn't know the hate was SO bad

[laurawriter]

Did everybody know about this?
I recently started a website for women (I don't know if I'm allowed to say what it is because of the advertising rules thing - am I allowed to say?) But basically it's a site where women can share very mundane, everyday instances of niggling sexism like being shouted at in the street or called 'babe' in the office etc etc. The idea was simply to give women a safe space to feel catharsis and talk about something that had been sexist and upsetting but which may well have been brushed off elsewhere or which they might not have been able to raise elsewhere because of the old 'overreacting' myth.

It doesn't mention men, isn't even overtly 'feminist' - so I've been completely blown away by the vitriol and hatred I've received for the past 3 days. Overnight, everynight, trolls post around 300 comments to the site (fortunately after the first horrible wave I've now managed to turn on moderation so at least only I can see them but still have to read them all to get to the genuine posts). Many of them are explicit descriptions of sexual assault, physical abuse and domestic violence. Many others use my name and 'pretend' to be me saying horrific things about myself. And several contain very explicit threats towards me, many including rape and some mentioning death.

I just wondered - is this normal? Is this a thing that people know about? I feel so horribly naive because I knew sexism was a problem but I had no idea there was such violent, blind hatred with no real reason or thought behind it just against women and their audacity in daring to speak out for themselves.

Sorry for the long post, I just wondered what people's thoughts were - I'm feeling pretty shaken up and don't know whether I should just be accepting this as 'normal' and par for the course with what I'm doing. I thought I was fine and being so strong the first day but then I woke up in the night terrified people were in my garden. Silly really!

Actually that's a great question, if that kid can get sent to jail for tweeting something rude about Muamba, why can't all these losers get sent off too? Idiots.

I think it's a great idea for a website Laura.

Have you thought about getting into crowdmapping?

crowdmap.com

As a next step I mean.... would be amazing to see this all visualised.

i typed a great big long post earlier that disappared. How annoying.

Anyway Laura I really admire you for setting up that site and I am very sorry that you have been distressed by the shite you have had to read. It is horribly prevalent. A much loved MNer was threatened a couple of weeks ago on FB (related to MN) and she reported it. Please don't feel you have to put up with being threatened.

And of course we are not pampered middle class white women. Why should be have to put up with insulting (albeit perhaps low level) abuse.

FWIW I love the support and kindness offered on the feminist MN topic.

Actually I've been doing boring house wifely feeding my family and I'm far too cynical to bother trying to solve the worlds problems or run a website.

I do not for a moment believe that terrible sexual injustice and violence doesn't happen in this country too.

What I do believe is feminism does it's self a huge disservice worrying about wolf whistles, being called babe and or that scantily clad women sell things.

I know the argument is that if we irradiate every tiny trace of sexist thought or action from life from the bottom up the bigger picture will follow. Sadly most men and many women I know will just fall about laughing.

The agenda of radical feminists is so at odds with human nature as most of have experienced life as to feel totally irrelevant.

WTAF? I get that there'd be the occasional troll, you know, a lone idiot or two, but my internal assumption says it would be a 5% or less of all readers thing - yet it seems to be pernicious, like the numbers of them is so high that they're everywhere. Even on tiny blogs.

Utterly, utterly stunned.

I can only echo what others have said - keep going, ignorance cannot be allowed to win.

Laura that site is great. Ive just left a couple of replies on there to what an Intrigued Male said. I too admire you for setting it up.

startail it might surprise you to learn that not all of the comments shouted in the street are complimentary. Some of it is downright nasty.

these radical feminists of which you speak...who are they and where is their agenda published? The radical feminists I am aware of are not actually very much covered by the mainstream media so unless you search it out, I'm surprised you find their agenda relevant to this thread or to the OP's website. I'm just an ordinary feminist, btw, with ordinary feminist concerns.

What margo said.

Not that I think radical feminist is an insult - far from it - but I can't see how anyone can ascribe the opinions on Laura's website as in any way radical or out of the way of the normal life of women. That is the kind of shit women have to put up with every day. Hardly out of the orindary. and isn't that the point?

I LOATHE the way that some people try and pooh pooh people's experiences 'oh that is nothing' 'oh look at what you are complaining of when women in the developing world have to put up with x'. Fuck that. Why denigrate some women's excperiences because it is classed as not being as bad as what other people have to put up with. Shouldn't we consider it all?

People used to say it ws human nature for normal people to shout obscenities at black people in the street as well Startail.

Now, we recognise them for what they are - nasty racist tossers. One day, people will stop sayign that nasty sexist tossers are just a manifestation of human nature.

There is someone posting from Pakistan on the second page.

The person claiming that it's only white women posting on the site is being racist.

Do you shout obscenities at people in the street Startail?

Do you really think it's normal behaviour? Human nature?

If your children do it, do you tell them they're just exercising their normal human nature?

Sorry but I reserve the right to be annoyed at strange men commenting on my ass. Nothing radical about it.

You may think feminism is misguided in caring about such things, but what would feminism be if it didn't care about them?

You can't go around saying women should be treated equally and respectfully and then say 'oh but go on, stare at my bum, I don't mind...'

I think the trouble is Startail that you cannot separate the two - or where do you draw the line? How can we expect men (and women) to take us seriously and understand what we're saying if we say 'yes we do want equality and equal pay and equal jobs and opportunities and rights....but if you objectify me in the street it's no biggie' - it simply wouldn't work ideologically. It's like saying "I believe in fighting environmental destruction, but you know, only the really big issues like climate change and landfill...so I'm not going to pick up that snickers wrapper over there' - ultimately it's all connected.

oh dreamingbohemian, don't you realise you've got no right to be annoyed about that.

You need to be annoyed about something else instead.

Someone will give you clear instructions soon. I too have given up being annoyed about the things which might be too trivial for someone else who is busy fighting bigger battles than our trivial ones. I realise now I should be annoyed about somethign more important.

Yes, the thing is, if there were no such thing as sexism, becasue we'd won the battle for equal pay and men had stopped raping and beating us and not being punished for that, we would have won the battle to be considered equal, full human beings. And there would be no cat calling and objectification in the street, because it would simply be demented behaviour, there would be no systematic background of sexism behind it.

You can compare sexism with racism. You wouldn't be allowed to say anything racist these days and get away with it. And what a good thing that is!

So why should you just brush off sexist comments? What world do we want for our daughters?

And what is radical feminism? Please define. As human beings, we just want to be respected and feel valued, regardless of our race, gender, religion, size, physical appearance, sexual orientation etc etc

I can't believe not just men, but also women are out there endorsing sexist comments and behaviour. How sad!

Oh right, Basil, sorry I didn't realise!

What a relief actually, I mean it's so hard being annoyed about more than one thing at a time.

Look people who troll and post obscenities on feminist or any other web site operating in good faith are scum. I think we all agree on that.

All I'm trying, not very eruditely, to say is where some modern feminists draw the line between what is sexist enough to worry about and what isn't differently to society in general.

Ordinary men feel nervous of interacting with women less they step over some invisible ever shifting line.

I feel alienated from the feminist cause, which I believe in very deeply, because I'm not offended by things I'm told I should be.

If you make people feel nervous and tell them what to think you will provoke a reaction. In people with a chip on their shoulders that can be a very nasty reaction.

You can change what people do fairly easily, it takes generations to change what they think.

Sometimes I think modern feminism in the West is trying to achieve perfection and leaving most of the world and many of it's own women behind.

It's a defense mechanism, isn't it, to say that name calling isn't so bad, because it could be so much worse. It keeps one happy enough with our lot.

Startail says she's too much of a cynisist too worry about the smaller issues. She's picking her battles, as are perhaps a great number of those who don't take every day sexism seriously.

Fair enough, but I'm glad that there are people who want to take on the smaller but perhaps far more fundamental attitudes! If sexism/racism/homophobia etc is to be truly unacceptable, and not just in a pc kind of way, "small" and big issues have to be recognised!

What a brilliant idea for a website :) I'm sorry you've been targeted by some small-minded idiots.

Startrail -- so women should put up with sexism, so that men don't ever have to feel nervous or be provoked into nastiness?

If men are being forced to think about whether they are being offensive, that's a good thing. That's how things change!

It's actually not that hard to not be sexist. And hey then you never have to be nervous talking to women again.

I do not mean to imply that Startail doesn't take sexism seriously. Her post speaks for itself.

I call myself a feminist, but can't always get upset over smaller remarks in my every day life. Partly that's cowardice, for sometimes I fear it may do more harm than good in other ways (working relationship for example), partly is realism that I am unlikely to change someone's attitude there and then. Depending on the situation/person I challenge such remarks.

This does not mean however that I don't value the effort of other, braver people! It IS much needed!

Its funny as some of my friends tell me I should be grateful (!!!) that I am born into a country that does not condone female circumcision, abuse, rape and so on...And I say - Hell no!! Why should I be grateful that men treat me like a human being??!!

Every single example of men treating women as less than human beings SHOULD be reported!!!!

Actually I think it is impossible for any normal man to interact in a relaxed manner with a woman and not be sexist according to some women's definition of being sexist.

Now I am going to take my undeniably old fashioned sexist DH (he is unfixable, but I do try) to bed.

Laura your website is a thing of beauty. Thank you for putting it together. You may have been targeted by idiots, but from some of the posts on there from men, you've opened a lot of eyes and effected some real change. You're amazing.