Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I didn't know the hate was SO bad

189 replies

laurawriter · 06/04/2012 12:38

Did everybody know about this?
I recently started a website for women (I don't know if I'm allowed to say what it is because of the advertising rules thing - am I allowed to say?) But basically it's a site where women can share very mundane, everyday instances of niggling sexism like being shouted at in the street or called 'babe' in the office etc etc. The idea was simply to give women a safe space to feel catharsis and talk about something that had been sexist and upsetting but which may well have been brushed off elsewhere or which they might not have been able to raise elsewhere because of the old 'overreacting' myth.

It doesn't mention men, isn't even overtly 'feminist' - so I've been completely blown away by the vitriol and hatred I've received for the past 3 days. Overnight, everynight, trolls post around 300 comments to the site (fortunately after the first horrible wave I've now managed to turn on moderation so at least only I can see them but still have to read them all to get to the genuine posts). Many of them are explicit descriptions of sexual assault, physical abuse and domestic violence. Many others use my name and 'pretend' to be me saying horrific things about myself. And several contain very explicit threats towards me, many including rape and some mentioning death.

I just wondered - is this normal? Is this a thing that people know about? I feel so horribly naive because I knew sexism was a problem but I had no idea there was such violent, blind hatred with no real reason or thought behind it just against women and their audacity in daring to speak out for themselves.

Sorry for the long post, I just wondered what people's thoughts were - I'm feeling pretty shaken up and don't know whether I should just be accepting this as 'normal' and par for the course with what I'm doing. I thought I was fine and being so strong the first day but then I woke up in the night terrified people were in my garden. Silly really!

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 07/04/2012 12:42

i'm a little tired of women calling themselves feminists and then proceeding to use their energy to slag off women.

at the risk of stating the obvious that's not feminism. it's selfism and that self happening to be female.

roughtyping · 07/04/2012 12:48

Could someone post a link to the website please? Really interested to see it. Sorry if it's already been posted!

scottishmummy · 07/04/2012 12:49

feminism like all ideologies is open to discussion and debate
that can be robust and one can comment upon women too.it isn't a gushy effusing that women are necessarily great,and men aren't. commenting on positive and negative aspects of women behaviour etc isnt anti women. nor is it antifeminist. frankly whererever I see any sweeping generalization I will challenge it whether it is about male or female

a,generalizations such as all men are sexist, I'd challenge that.as it's not a factual given

generalization such as women cannot be sexist, I'd challenge that.as it's not a factual given

laurawriter · 07/04/2012 12:51

Its www.everydaysexism.com thanks all for the lovely messages about the site I'm so glad you like it!

OP posts:
Sanjeev · 07/04/2012 12:53

One of the great things about Laura's site is that it can change things. Some people might see it as just an opportunity for women to moan about trivial stuff. I don't think it is. To gain ground, feminism needs to win hearts and minds. Anti-sexism legislation is in place in the UK, but there are still gaps in pay and opportunity. That must be because attitudes have not caught up with the law. It wont change everything overnight, but if it makes one man think about the throwaway comment he made about a colleague's 'nice arse', it has achieved a victory - 'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.'

roughtyping · 07/04/2012 12:53

Thanks laura

garlicbunny · 07/04/2012 12:54

roughtyping - www.everydaysexism.com/

laurawriter · 07/04/2012 13:17

Yes if even a few people change their ideas, even a few women feel supported and even a few wonderful intelligent debates like this one are achieved by it then it will have been worth it. Thanks for your post garlic!

OP posts:
ArtexMonkey · 07/04/2012 13:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

laurawriter · 07/04/2012 13:41

Yes if even a few people change their ideas, even a few women feel supported and even a few wonderful intelligent debates like this one are achieved by it then it will have been worth it. Thanks for your post garlic!

OP posts:
laurawriter · 07/04/2012 13:44

Oops double post sorry!

OP posts:
bringbacksideburns · 07/04/2012 14:00

Brilliant site - will add my experiences too.

laurawriter · 07/04/2012 14:09

Thank you!

OP posts:
garlicbunny · 07/04/2012 14:18

:) :) one for each post [buwink]

scottishmummy · 07/04/2012 18:30

great idea, great site
uncomfortable but compelling reading

roughtyping · 07/04/2012 19:09

Great site, well done Laura.

Today I was at a football match with DS (8), OH and some of OH's friends. At half time the cheerleaders came out, one of OH's friends leaned over to DS and said, "Right, THIS is why we're here!" I was so angry! Told him my boy will not be raised thinking like that. Argh.

pixiewitch · 08/04/2012 19:21

Hi Laura,
I think your site is great.

I was at lunch today & mentioned your site. Within 5 minutes we were all talking about situations that had happened to all of us, so we opened the computer & went onto your site. Everyone round the table was reading & talking openly about things, it was great.

Thank you for being brave & I hope the trolling/horrid-ness stops.

JosephineB · 09/04/2012 10:36

@ Startail: Your posts reminded me of something I read where the author expresses herself far more eloquently than I can: Feminism 101: "Feminists Look for Stuff to Get Mad About"

Quote:

'... the idea that addressing "the little things," like being told to smile or misogynistic t-shirts, somehow demeans feminism or distracts from "real" or "serious" sexism is utterly, completely, devilishly wrong.

Feminism seeks to address all manner of issues, big and small. That women can (and do) utilize the tenets of feminism in every aspect of their lives does not undermine the history of the feminist movement, but instead does it a great honor. Feminism was never meant to be restricted to suffrage and equal pay, held in reserve like a finite quantity that could run out if it's used for "the little things." Feminism is a renewable resource.

The idea that feminism should be kept under glass, broken only in case of a "real" and "serious" emergency, is predicated on the erroneous assumption that "the little things" happen in a void, as do, presumably, the "real" and "serious" things, when, in reality, they are interwoven strands of the same rope. And as soon as one begins to judge the worthiness of feminists' attention on a sliding scale, even generally-regarded "serious issues" like equal pay are dwarfed by global concerns like sex trafficking or government-sanctioned use of rape as a tool of war. It doesn't have to be one or the other?feminists can multi-task.

And, in a very real way, ignoring "the little things" in favor of "the big stuff" makes the big stuff that much harder to eradicate, because it is the pervasive, ubiquitous, inescapable little things that create the foundation of a sexist culture on which the big stuff is dependent for its survival. It's the little things, the constant drumbeat of inequality and objectification, that inure us to increasingly horrible acts and attitudes toward women.

Irrespective of intent, the recommendation to "ignore the little stuff," so often intertwined with accusations of looking for things about which to get offended, is not just ill-advised, but counter to the ultimate goal of full equality. It's like a knife in my gut when I see feminists accusing other feminists of "hurting the cause" by focusing on "the little stuff," because that's It?that's the stuff, that's the fertile soil in which everything else takes root and from whence everything else springs, that's the way that the fundamental idea that women are not equal to men is conveyed over and over and over again.'

epicfail · 09/04/2012 11:47

Don't be discouraged by pathetic troublemaking trolls Laura. The site is great, I think it will be quite cathartic to post a few stories there.

BasilFoulEggs · 09/04/2012 13:56

great post josephineb.. that's it exactly

SweetGrapes · 09/04/2012 14:14

Exactly!!

flippinada · 09/04/2012 17:11

At the risk of sounding like an echo..Great post JosephineB!

GeekCool · 10/04/2012 11:27

Great website!

SooFrustrated · 11/04/2012 00:15

Thanks Laura your site is great and I'm totally hooked. I've have had my eyes opened, it's such an easy place to vent at the everyday stuff that goes on.

laurawriter · 13/04/2012 13:06

Thanks so much all and I'm so excited by your post pixiewitch - that's exactly what I'm hoping for - to open a dialogue and get people talking about this so it can't be swept under the carpet.

I wanted to post again to give you all an update after all your incredible support - there are still a good handful of angry/misogynistic comments coming through every day but the horrific trolling seems to have stopped completely! Hurray! Thank you so much for all supporting me through that patch, I'm so glad now that I hung in there, especially seeing the latest post from a little girl who wants to play football and was told she'd be a 'distraction' on the school team - so glad to be giving her a bunch of other strong female voices she can identify with and realise she's not alone, it's not ok and we will fight it!

There's now a clear repetition of ideas starting to emerge in the negative posts I'm getting and it's actually really interesting to get this insight into the 'anti-feminist' ideas men unite behind - most of them are SO illogical! For instance, the main 3 ideas coming up again and again seem to be

  • This is a site for women only oh ho ho how sexist and hypocritical of YOU!!
  • Women didn't fight in wars so they don't have the right to vote (and variations on this one such as it IS a burden to your employer if you take 9 months off work so why SHOULDN'T women be paid less?)
  • Women sometimes 'cry' rape when they actually had consensual sex, leading to innocent men going to jail, therefore no woman has the right to get angry about rape.

Don't you think that's interesting? if they wanted a real battle, I can think of some far more compelling (whilst still utterly refutably, obv) arguments they could come up with but these ones? Really? It certainly seems to point towards received notions dictating behaviour rather than any independent thought or analysis of reality influencing them - which is both a perverse comfort and a very depressing revelation I think!

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread