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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

This Brick person. Has the world (and specifically this bit of it) gone completely barking mad?

111 replies

ReactionaryFish · 05/04/2012 21:59

So some silly attention-seeker writes some daft article which endorses a whole load of unpleasant misogynist attitudes about valuing women purely on the basis of their looks.
And MN responds to this by .... about 30 000 threads endorsing precisely the same attitudes by attacking this woman for her looks.
Not very bright, is it?

OP posts:
BasilFoulTea · 06/04/2012 23:15

Are you referring to the stereotype of men talking down to women and telling them what's what and expecting the women to meekly accept their parameters RF?

Well, if the cap fits...

Original poster
ReactionaryFish · 06/04/2012 23:17

I'm going to have one more go at this, and then stop engaging with you, because you plainly have decided you're going to read about one word in 10 of what I post and then wilfully misunderstand that.
I am not generalising about women. I am remarking on a clear trend which I have observed here over the last few days, which one the one hand you seem to want to deny exists, and on the other you defend on the grounds, as I understand it, that the participants are hapless victims of media manipulation. Of course not every single poster on MN has participated in that trend; nowhere have I claimed that that is the case.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReactionaryFish · 06/04/2012 23:18

"There is something a bit off about RF's posts. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if RF is a man."

Blimey, I would be

OP posts:
LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:18

I'm having a weird few days, getting onto threads, not saying anything particularly controversial (I don't think), and posters saying 'I'm just going to give up,' or 'I'm off.'

Is it me?

SardineQueen · 06/04/2012 23:20

What is the point of this thread anyway?

I just read the OP again and the question was whether the response of "MN" was "not very bright" or not.

MN is a large group of people and so the question doesn't make sense.
And I don't like seeing the whole of MN classified as "not very bright" based on what some people on it wrote.
It's a non-question.

SardineQueen · 06/04/2012 23:20

Nah linerunner it's not you.

LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:23

Indeed, the OP is a generalising OP in the extreme.

There is no clear trend in the threads that existed prior to this thread. No-one is hapless. There has been interesting analysis of the 'choreography' involved by a large number of posts and posters.

LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:25

I've noticed that many people don't leave a thread anyway when they say they are going to. It's kind of sweet, the bond that exists.

BasilFoulTea · 06/04/2012 23:26

Clear trend?

Yes, if you ignore all the posts which aren't part of this clear trend.

Original poster
ReactionaryFish · 06/04/2012 23:27

well, I disagree with you on that basic factual point, linerunner. The immediate response to this article was a mind-boggling proliferation of threads attacking this lady for her looks, proferring such gems as "my DH doesn't even fancy her" etc. You'd expect the odd post along those lines no doubt, but this wave of bile was overwhelming. Certainly later a few threads critical of the DM manipulation crept in, but the initial and majority response I found genuinely shocking. I would not have expected it.

OP posts:
LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:29

No, that's not correct, OP.

Although I would be interested in seeing your data analysis.

Original poster
ReactionaryFish · 06/04/2012 23:33

And I yours. Frankly, if you're denying that this response took place, you're plainly prepared to say anything to prove your point ... which is what, by the way? it didn't happen? or it did and it's OK? I'm still not clear on this, I'm afraid.)

OP posts:
LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:35

So, you would I guess need to look at the number of threads; number of posts; rapidity of response of threads; categorise types of response; take account of whether they were a response to the article, a previous post or a subsequent tv apprerance; quantify number of repeat posters and assess whether minds were changed; and decide on weightings for all of the above.

BasilFoulTea · 06/04/2012 23:36

And what's your point RF?

That women are all thick, because look at those daft threads on MN?

Would you like everyone to agree with you that we're all thick and men aren't and so it's OK that they rule the world and we should wind up the feminist section?

I like a bit of ambition. Good luck with that.

Original poster
ReactionaryFish · 06/04/2012 23:38

"Would you like everyone to agree with you that we're all thick and men aren't and so it's OK that they rule the world and we should wind up the feminist section?"

Not really. But I would quite like people to respond to the arguments I've actually raised, rather than seeing things that aren't there.

OP posts:
LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:40

You haven't raised arguments. You have been argumentative, I'll give you that.

BasilFoulEggs · 06/04/2012 23:44

Off to bed now, no point engaging with argumentative people with no arguments..

qo · 06/04/2012 23:45

RF I think you're fighting a losing battle here, but I get what you're trying to say - it's touched on another current thread in feminisim, can't think what the ttile is but something like, is the hate really this bad?

You might be better off joining in there :)

LineRunner · 06/04/2012 23:45

Yeah, time to wind down for bed. Night, all.

Original poster
ReactionaryFish · 06/04/2012 23:50

Will they tell me I'm a man too, qo?
I must bookmark this thread to show DH later.

OP posts:
Xenia · 07/04/2012 10:01

Most of what people haev said about her is what most of us think - she is not as good looking as she says (although certainly looks better than some) and that it is not on to go on about it. Also to say that genuinely many of us are not jealous of other women who look good and that we are not happy about the generalisations she makes about other women.

I have sometimes found people suggesting I must be a man because they seem to think only men have certain characteristics eg to be ambitious, competitive, to earn a lot, to succeed. They cannot believe women can be like that. That sort of categorising by gender keeps women down as do statements that all women want to work part time when plenty of us love working long hours and being excellent at what we do and more housework and childcare is the last thing we want to do. We are not male for being like this. We are simply human.

It is like a comment that someone may be insane (often used by men in some cultures or the state in others to stifle free speech, Victorian women locked in lunatic asylums if they were not conveniently compliant etc)

Sanjeev · 07/04/2012 10:50

'I have sometimes found people suggesting I must be a man because they seem to think only men have certain characteristics eg to be ambitious, competitive, to earn a lot, to succeed. They cannot believe women can be like that.'

Xenia, well put. I said the same thing in another thread about Brick. She isn't stupid, she isn't naive, she isn't some hick from the back of beyond. To assume that she doesn't know exactly what she is doing, or that she doesn't understand the DM and it's audience, makes the assumption that she is just a dumb woman being manipulated by her (presumably male) bosses. I have a feeling it's the other way round.

Starwisher · 07/04/2012 11:26

I'm not sure why it was just suggested op was a man. It just came out of nowhere and was entirely unjustified

I also don't care for the implication that as if the mere fact of being a man is in itself somehow worthy of insult as well as the implication only a female opinion is valid.

What does it matter what sex a poster is?

As a female, if I have ever posted in a male orientated forum not once have I been made to feel my input is worthless based on my sex.

SardineQueen · 07/04/2012 14:30

I flat out do not believe that women in the feminist section have been posting "well my DH doesn't fancy her" Confused

I do not understand the point of this thread at all.

SardineQueen · 07/04/2012 14:31

Starwisher you obviously haven't seen what happened to that poor girl on Reddit!