Disabled 'deserve' the joy of sex.

[SmellsLikeTeenStrop]

www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/disabled-deserve-sex-rights/story-e6frea83-1226310720177

In brief, the Dignity for the Disabled MP in Australia wants the tax payer to fund sex workers for the disabled.

thoughts?

I don't see why desires are not valuable.

Chocolate isn't a 'need' (no, really, it isn't), and yet we would consider that disabled people have as much right as anyone else to seek gratuitous pleasure. So if a disabled person needs assistance from a PA to nip to Tesco's for a creme egg, we would be a harsh society indeed if we provided the services of a PA only to cater for needs and not for the occasional creme egg.

And rape is no more defensible than smashing a shop window to steal a creme egg, in fact it's obviously worse as it is a crime against a person, physically emotionally and psychologically, but just because sex has been a site of political struggle doesn't mean that the dialectic has to be one track for ever more, does it?

Sex is bad if it's bad. Beyond co-ersion and abuse, which can never be condoned, in any circs, there may be other models.

You know, there ARE people, including women, who will chosses sex work over some other jobs, if they can choose their clients and so forth.

I am playing devil's advocate, or at least 'can we talk about this' to a certain extent becaue I don't like dogmatic responses.

The series starting tonight could be illuminating in exploring specific barriers that some disabled people have in fulfilling their desires.

Just to add - all the disabled people I know are having quite enthusiastic sex lives, and I don't want to imply that disabled folk need paid partners to have sex. And I am listening to those disabled women on this thread who would find it repellant. Personally, so would I. I don't think being disabled would change my feelings about hiring someone to have sex with, why would it?

But I never assume that someone else will feel the same as me or ought to feel the same as me, or make the same decision as me.

presumably the person who is to sell sex is at least marginally different from a chocolate egg? this is a deeply disturbing metaphor - woman as thing (yes, thing) to be consumed

brrrrr

To some extent I do see where you're coming from, Calming Miranda. And theoretically, if the sex worker truly did choose that profession when all other viable careers were open to them, then I would have no problem with your scenario.

All this comparing payment for sex to fostering or buying cream eggs is disingenuous, IMO, because they aren't really comparable. Sex work is turning a human being into a commodity, however you colour it and however willing that person is to be a commodity.

Where is all goes horribly wrong, and where I feel this proposal could never work, is that there is no definite way to make sure that the sex worker really and truly is a willing participant and not in any way being exploited. Unless the services were offered for free.

I am not comparing a woman to a choc egg.
I am comparing the respective desires of the desirer for something that is sensually pleasurable and nice, whilst not being essential.

I don't see sex as a bad thing to desire, I don't see it as an intrinsically bad thing to offer someone sensual pleasure.

Mining turns human beings into commodities. Capitalism based on human labour does.

Actually perhaps it is only in slavery the human becomes a commodity, because the body itself is owned and bought. In sex work and other human labour it is the act which becomes a commodity.

Obviously trafficked, pimped, co-erced women count as enslaved and commodified because their bodies have been stolen. But I'm not sure that paying for sex or a sinsual pleasure from a non-coerced woman or man is turning that person into a thing.

Your metaphor turned the seller of sex into a thing.

Do you have a foolproof way to know who was trafficked, or threatened, or coerced in to selling sex?

Absolutely, and sex workers should also be provided for prisoners too . It is after all a human right and as such should not be denied to criminals in a civilised society!!!!!

Sex is not a human right.
Loads of people (for whatever reason) don't have sex.
Using prostitutes is not the answer.

And interesting that in none of the articles that I have read or documentaries that I have seen, has it been suggested that men be paid to perform sex acts on women with disabilities. Funny that.

Yes, SQ, most strange

it's always about the disabled man's right to get wanked off by all these ready and willing female sex workers

No, Chibi, it hasn't.

But in any case, metaphors are only ever useful to explore one aspect of something, they are a device, a technique for looking at something from a differnt angle, not proof.

here is a woman talking about paying for sex

I don't know how I would tell if someone was co-erced - the 'free' suggestion was a good one - maybe the Austrailian gvt could set up swinger-type parties, the only entrance requirement being an inclusive / equal opps attitude. And a free egg and bacon sandwich and glass of sangria and your bus pass paid to cover expenses.

But then I am about fostering being a source of income, and know of instances where it has led to the very bad treatment of fostered teens. They are perhaps a commodity, used as a source of oncome for the fosterer - but that doesn't mean that good foster parenting should be stopped.

"I don't know how I would tell if someone was co-erced - the 'free' suggestion was a good one - maybe the Austrailian gvt could set up swinger-type parties, the only entrance requirement being an inclusive / equal opps attitude. And a free egg and bacon sandwich and glass of sangria and your bus pass paid to cover expenses."

That's not prostitution then is it. If people want to have sex with other people because they want to, then that is just bog standard sex.

Although some people are desperate enough to sell themselves for a free sandwich, so I'm not sure that idea is much good.

here is a male sex worker offering himself to female clients on a site for disabled people

TLC organisation though the home page of this volunteer run association has a sentence which made me think the whole thing was a satire or something as it implies that they regret not being able to engage trafficked 'service providers' because it is illegal. Which is pretty horrendous - IME Disability Rights Campaigners are generally more politically aware than that

What the actual fuck at that TLC homepage? It must be a really poor joke, surely

calming I didn't say that there are no men in the world that offer these services. But that when this is discussed the focus is invariably on men with disabilities and female prostitutes.

More than just one line, calming, the whole of that front page is just awful.

How can you pay someone for sex and that not be coercive sex? The payment is the coercion. If you didn't need to be coerced you wouldn't be paid.

SardineQueen, I know - horrific, but I wonder if they lost the argument about something else and have written it all very badly. .

There are some interesting comments from a range of stances under the BBC article that I linked to previously, about the woman paying for sex.

Alice, is everything paid for co-erced? Do you co-erce your window cleaner or your child minder? Or do they say 'I can provide something you want, this is the price I charge, take it or leave it' .

Anyway, sorry not to answer any more challenges, I have to visit a popular flat-pack funiture outlet. Under heavy duress.

That first link with the male sex worker says the services are for men.

omg

is it for real ?

"disabled people need helpers to make sure they won't lose an anal dildo up their arse" (paraphrased)

that nugget at the bottom of a very long list of "clinical" reasons why "Veronica" can help "Dave"

etc

I can't believe how unbelievably insulting this is to the vast majority of disabled people. Implying that the only way they could have sex is if someone is paid for it. Ugh!

Sex is not like selling any other skill or talent. I sell my abilities to my boss and in return I get paid. The most I suffer from my work is perhaps a bit of stiffness from sitting in a chair at my desk for too long. Even in a manual job there is legislation in place to minimise risk. Sex for prostitutes carries the risk of death, serious injury, rape, sexual disease, loss of fertility and emotional harm. It is incomparable to any other line of 'work' and no amount of legislation can counteract those risks.

STDs are not eradicated by using condoms. And how do you prove rape when 'consent' as a legal principle is established the minute the 'sex worker' takes the money? At that point she has pretty much lost any control she had to ensure her own safety as even though she might not want anal sex (for example) how is she going to prove that later? Who's going to take the word of a prostitute in court?

No one ever died or became ill from not having sex. No one suffers emotional trauma from not having sex either. Frustration yes, but then I'm frustrated that no one has seen fit to reward my hard work and intelligence with a six-figure salary either.

I am disgusted by this. Not only on behalf of exploited women the world over, but also on behalf of the many disabled people who feel that this will set back their cause to be seen as fully functional members of society.

Erm yes. Why do you think people pay you to do things?

people do get that a creme egg and a human female are different?

a right to chocolate and a right to stick your cock into another sentient being are rather different.

surprised by some of the posts on here.

I would take the word of a prostitute in court.

I also find this whole thing sends a terrible message about people with disabilities as well, sunshine.

How many people with disabilities even want to use prostitutes? My bet is a similar proportion to that of people without disabilities. Yet these people would tar all men with disabilities with the same brush (and it is usually men see earlier point about women with disabilities and their sexual desires never getting any airtime in this conversation).

Male entitlement is male entitlement irrespective of whether the male in question has a disability or not.