Really? we think that "that organisation" are representative of fathers in general? really?

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

"They are already telling us that F4J (and by association every dad in the land) are bullying and intimidating them in this latest campaign, a stance that completely ignores the decades of intimidation that has been suffered by fathers at the hands of women?s organistions and which attempts to control the space around the campaign..."

Do they think we are as mad and misguided as them?

Intimidation by women's organisations?

From http://karenwoodall.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/on-the-tyranny-of-the-weak-a-mothers-day-musing/

Who is this handmaden person?

'I don't think that holding open doors or giving up a chair is a sign of respect tbh, I don't really want to be treated like a fragile vessel, I'd settle for being treated like a human being.'

Fine. Have a door shut in your face and stand till your feet swell if you think that's what makes you a human being.

Get your arse down a mine, to a sewage works or on a garbage lorry whilst you're at it.

Get your arse down a mine, to a sewage works or on a garbage lorry whilst you're at it

All well paid jobs that men conspired to keep women out of. Perhaps you'd like to try the most dangerous 'job' of all (prostitution) or clean toilets for a living or care for old people or any number of dirty, unpleasant and low paid jobs whilst you're at it?

And I do find it entertaining that having a door opened for me / offereda seat is to supposed to compensate for low pay / lack of legal protection / lack of bodily autonomy etc etc. I'll take the swollen feet thanks.

'Down a mine', do you think we're living in the 19th century? Women did work down mines btw, they had the job, along side children, of crawling along tunnels on their hands and knees, pulling the trucks behind them, empty ones to the miners, and full ones to the lift shaft. Bet you didn't know that kiddo.

It's funny that you types always come out with sewage works and garbage lorries as if they're two jobs that delicate females couldn't possibly cope with. The majority of cleaners of women, and if you are the cleaner of a public toilet in town then you will daily come in to contact with human waste, condoms filled with human secretions, needles and other sorts of nasties. This is a job that involves getting close and personal with all sorts of crap and the most you get to protect you is a pair of marigolds. Sewage workers have all sorts of protective gear and if you think about it, most of the work is done my machinery, they just have to supervise. Ditto garbage lorries, they get heavy duty gloves and protective gear, and it's a sodding machine that does the work for them.

Prostitution doesn't interest me particularly. I used to run a cleaning business and have had my hand down many a toilet. I also worked in a care home briefly and cleaned up many an 'accident'. Your point is? Also, when I worked in the care home, there were a number of men doing the same job.

I love the theory that men 'conspire' to keep women off garbage trucks etc..

I don't see many e-petitions asking for the right to work at a sewage works.

I'm pleased that you're happy with your swollen feet. I'm not, but unfortunately I don't have much choice as you're kindly forging ahead in your desire to eradicate chivalry in my name (but without my consent), so thanks.

Oh yes, good point JosephineB, those jobs which are mainly done by machines are all highly paid compared to cleaning work which actually involves a lot of physical activity and getting up close and personal with anything that can be ejected from a human body.

Don't call me kiddo. I'm 42. 'You types'? What's that supposed to mean?

So is it OK for a women to open a door or give up a seat, but if a man does it, it's sexist. How do you know if he's opening a door because he's sexist, or because he's a 'decent man' who keeps his eyes off your tits?

it's fine for a man to do it too as far as i'm concerned.

he's welcome to open the door for me so long as he's not expecting me to lose any rights as a human being in exchange

I remember back in the 1980s saying that I would happily exchange 'chivalry' for equal pay.

yeah i'm at a loss as to why not wanting to beaten in our own homes, or raped with impunity and wanting things like the vote, reproductive rights, equal pay etc prevents men from opening doors

that chivalry was pretty damned conditional if that's the case.

Well that's good SAF. When I've walked through held open doors I've found it difficult to tell whether the man in question expected me to lose any rights as a human being though...I tend to just say 'thanks'.

yep me too SF. what's your point? you were the one who brought this into conversation and accused us of given you swollen ankles and having doors slammed in your face

I just hold the door open for the person following behind me. Male or female, I don't discriminate.

I also recall as a girl being excluded from certain occupations. When the army careers adviser came to my school we were told we could join up and become a secretary or a kennel maid.

I dimly recall female teachers not being allowed to be married.

I am 49, not 109.

I hold doors open for people because it is helpful.

''You're responsible for the contents of your own though.''

Yes, that's why you won't catch me advising people to petition for rights they already have. hth.

Benevolent sexism is the better term to describe what some would say was simply chivalrous behaviour. As you've nicely demonstrated sigmund, this 'chivalry' comes at a price and that price is women not doing anything to change the status quo.

Chivalry has class discrimination written right through it, too.

Feminists are changing the status quo perfectly well without my input. They don't seem to care about how I feel, yet they're perfectly happy to continue in my name, without asking me.