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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Derailers... Help? <possible triggers>

121 replies

TakingBackSaturday · 25/02/2012 01:24

How do you deal with them?

The derailer in question is a close friend, who identifies as a feminist. However, of late, I've noticed she has a tendency to derail feminist conversations; one of which was a conversation about rape, in which she insisted it was unfair on men to exclaim that "men shouldn't rape", because, as far as she was concerned, it labelled all men rapists. She's supposed to be an English student, so should have more awareness of how the English language works... But still.

She also went on to explain how this comment was unfair, on the basis that it assumes all rapists are men, and it eliminates the victims of female rapists. We're both in England, so under our law, the presence of a penis is needed for a rape. When she was challenged on this, she carried on to say we didn't know how many male victims of women rapists there are, considering how shaming it must be for a man to admit he's been raped by a woman.

How do I explain to her that forcing women to talk about men in a predominantly woman based experience is derailing, and misogynistic? Because, atm, she won't listen to anyone who tries to explain.

OP posts:
BasilRathbone · 25/02/2012 12:46

She didn't say that IC, you're right.

It's a deliberate tactic to pretend that she's saying something ridiculous when she isn't.

Notthefullshilling · 25/02/2012 13:00

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InmaculadaConcepcion · 25/02/2012 13:05

How was this meant to be interpreted if not directly about the purpose of rape?

Did Nyac say that enforced pregnancy was the only purpose of rape? I missed that bit in her posts.

flippinada · 25/02/2012 13:10

Oh yes, talking about rape is just as bad as doing it Hmm.

TunipTheVegemal · 25/02/2012 13:12

'by saying that the OP's friend has a wrong way of thinking you are as bad as any rapist '

Are you INSANE? Disagreeing with someone is as bad as rape?!?!?!

flippinada · 25/02/2012 13:17

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TakingBackSaturday · 25/02/2012 13:17

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/02/2012 13:18

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BasilRathbone · 25/02/2012 13:20

" by saying that the OP's friend has a wrong way of thinking you are as bad as any rapist imposing power and privledge on others. "

Er, really? You think saying that the way someone thinks, is as bad as violently forcing yourself into their unwilling body.

You also seem to be under the impression that "feminists" are some body of people who are immensely powerful and privileged and able to impose whatever creed it is you think we have, onto a powerless world which can only watch in terror as we rampage across the globe like Pol Pot and impose equality and respect on unwilling victims who can only wring their hands in despair when confronted by a pay-cheque which has the same numbers on it as their husbands.

And the only people who would be interested in interpreting my post as meaning that I don't think men and children who are raped matter and interpreting Nyac's posts in the way that people pretend they have, are those who want to pretend that feminists are just eeeevil.

It's just silly. I can't take you seriously.

Notthefullshilling · 25/02/2012 13:27

Mmm personal attacks always the way to win an argument eh!

yellowraincoat · 25/02/2012 13:33

It is awful that men get raped - but the figure is of course nowhere near the number of women who are raped. And the number who are raped by women is even smaller. Men are just not that likely to be raped - and they certainly don't go around in fear of it happening as some women do.

So on that count I think it doesn't have that much of a place in conversation.

I don't think it's helpful to paint all or even most men as rapists though. And equally I don't see the point in trying to change someone's mind, since it rarely happens and if it does, it happens over a long period of time.

TunipTheVegemal · 25/02/2012 13:36

but no-one IS painting all or most men as rapists Yellowraincoat.
If we were going around saying 'Most men are rapists you know' you would have a point, but we aren't.

Archemedes · 25/02/2012 13:37

The only female rapist i've heard of was a russian women who used to drug and use a strap one. to I think 10 men she got a pretty good sentence though, anyhoo I digress....

I think she just heard the sentence in a more sexist way than you meant it.

BasilRathbone · 25/02/2012 13:38

Who is painting all or most men as rapists YRC?

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/02/2012 13:38

Nobody is suggesting all or even most men are rapists Confused. Am I reading a different thread to others?

BasilRathbone · 25/02/2012 13:39

No you're not, but you're not reading it through "oh those rad fems are a bunch of manhater" goggles.

HTH.

Grin
TakingBackSaturday · 25/02/2012 13:39

Yellow, I don't think anyone tries to paint all men as rapists.

But men have the power to prevent rape. They consciously make the choice to rape or not rape a woman. This is why people say "men can stop rape". They're the ones who carry out the act, should they choose to do so. It's not a momentarily loss of control.

OP posts:
Notthefullshilling · 25/02/2012 13:40

Basil you and InmaculadaConcepcion need to co-ordinate more, she said I should read a post literally as it never used the actual words to spell out that rape means pregnancy. Whilst you said I should interpret your post using your own words as quoted in a different way, a way in which I made clear that you probably did not intend.

You know hand dived I find you incredibly funny, I am wrong to tell others how to do feminism which again in my post I was careful to show no one has the right to do. Then you tell me how I should do feminism and keep my intentions what ever they are to myself. And here was I under the mistaken belief that this was a public notice board and that anyone with any views could say what they like. But after seeing the vitriol that Yellowraincoat had to suffer I guess the sisterhood are in full pol pot mode.

TakingBackSaturday · 25/02/2012 13:41

Fuck, I've lost mine...

OP posts:
HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/02/2012 13:42

Thanks Basil - left those goggles upstairs! Grin

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/02/2012 13:45

I haven't told you how to do feminism. You told us that we needed to think about what we say. Me saying perhaps you should think about what you say i.e. not be so offensive is a fair response.

Notthefullshilling · 25/02/2012 13:51

I am sorry I rather thought being accused of making wild and unfounded statements was telling me that my thoughts were incompatible with some rule that I was not aware of!

BasilRathbone · 25/02/2012 13:54

I didn't tell you how to interpret my post Notthefullshilling.

You're free to interpret my post any old way you like.

How you do so, will depend on your political sympathies and will indicate where you're coming from or pretending to come from and where you believe I'm coming from, or pretend to believe I'm coming from.

As with all our interpretations of other people's posts.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/02/2012 13:54

No that was just telling you you were talking shite.

HTH

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/02/2012 13:55

That was to Notthefullshilling obviously!

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