"Miss goes missing on French official forms" - let's do the same here!

[Alittlefeminist]

Hurray for French feminists who have pushed through a revision of women's titles: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/22/mademoiselle-removed-from-french-official-forms :)

Let's do the same!

Because only a dupe of the patriarchy/Stepford Wife would want to be called Mrs.

Because some people dislike being asked if they are married.

Because men don't have a different title to denote that they are married.

Or so I am told, karate. I agree with you - I would hate to be Ms - so my belief is that it should be all titles or none.

Why don't we call everyone "comrade"?

bemybebe

Those of you who like Miss - does it not trouble you that have the same title as my 3yo DD? 'Miss' just says 'child' to me.

Ds1 has Mr on his bank book and has had since the account was opened when he was about a year old.

I'm really 'meh' on this issue.
Doesn't personally bother me what people choose for themselves.

Abstractly I'm with those who say marital status is irrelevent, as it is for men. I do agree with that argument.

But in my personal life I do sometimes use the 'grown up' title. It links me like my mother and grandmother before me etc etc. I feel it gives me a bit of gravitas and authority - grown upness - which tbh I'm a bit lacking in.
Posssibly I feel more competent and adult, and so command more respect, rather than it being given to me because I bagsied a man?

Sinical - that's exactly the point! Women aren't 'grownup' unless they use Mrs, which means a woman isn't an adult (and therefore to be taken seriously) unless she's married. It's just so offensive on so many levels.

As Rosy has said, 'master' is being dropped, men are now Mr practically from birth, just categorised as 'male', while women are still being herded into pens of 'female child or unmarried women' (low status) 'married woman' (highest status) or 'divorced/feminist/lesbian/bloody awkward woman' (lowest status).

But it's coming from me, not from the other party.
Conditioned of course, but very strong, it does make me feel like the next link on the chain form mum etc.
the other party, paperclip salesperson, doctors receptionist, meter reader doesn't give a damn whether I am or not. But I feel better able to 'take them on' (if necessary) when I channel the grown ups.

there's probably an element of class too, a hangover from respectability esp when you have kids.

Well, Annie, I bet to disagree about Ms being "'divorced/feminist/lesbian/bloody awkward woman' (lowest status)"

"Unfortunately", not everyone is from the Uk. Some of us come from countries wtih all sorts of traditions and whilst I was extremely happy to carry on using my own name with no kids on the horizon (Ms MyOwnName), when I married the second time I changed it to Mrs DHName because in my home country married partners should have the same name (who takes whos is not an issue) and we just decided to take his because it is beautiful and not as difficult to spell internationally.

People decide to become "Mrs DHName" for all sorts of reasons and not because "only a dupe of the patriarchy/Stepford Wife would want to be called Mrs". SDT

I'm sorry, Annie - but not everyone agrees with you that Miss equals child. As I said earlier on, my primary school headmistress - most definately an adult, and a well-respected one too, was a Miss. It simply signified unmarried.

Bemybebe - I was being ironic/tongue in cheek - but based on things that have been said to me here and on other threads on this issue. I certainly don't believe that only dupes of the patriarchy use Mrs - I use it myself and am proud and happy to do so. Just as I am happy to support any woman's right to call herself whatever title she chooses.

I also work in Customer Services and I'm impressed by how many women opt for Ms now so my experience is very different from the other CS poster. I'm always more impressed if it's an older woman, somehow, as my grandparents' generation seemed mostly to think it ridiculous ("Mzzzz"). I'm delighted by the news in France and to learn about the German status. Bring it on.

Me, I was Ms before my marriage and have stayed that way. If it marks me as a feminist, all the better. But these days I think it just says, I'm a woman.

"Just as I am happy to support any woman's right to call herself whatever title she chooses." 100% agree!

Ditto Crystal re the field of work! I should say my experience is anecdotal rather than data-based, and I'm sure if I looked at all our accounts, Mrs would outweigh Ms. It just seems that the new accounts I am inputting have a lot more Mss of all ages.

I agree with BlingLoving, I would be quite happy to see Miss and Mrs disappear from all official forms etc.

and there was I thinking feminism was about choices. for those of you getting your knickers in a twist about the title "miss" being on a form do you also object to sections which require you to declare your "marital status"? Ooo the impertinence of it all!

I'm a miss and I'm a feminist When I get married later this year I intend to call myself Mrs, I'll still be a feminist. If you want to call yourself Ms then go ahead but for those of us that like Miss why kick up such a fuss if we're not making you take the title?

Maryz, I use Ms and my husband's surname. I don't know my father so had never had an affinity with my existing surname and was delighted to have a new one. My friend's husband took her surname for the same reason.

The point with Ms is that it doesn't define you by your marital status. Surname has no bearing on this. Sadly I don't yet think we're at a stage where we could remove Mrs & Miss from forms, but I hope in time this will become workable.

right on Ruby!

I don't use DH's surname. I've been Ms maidenname since I was 16. Completely agree about some women liking the perceived enhanced "status" of being seen to be owned? married. But think about the effect this has on how unmarried women are seen. Do you want your daughters in the 21st Century to be defined in a way that your sons won't ever be, and to have no say in the matter?

And taking your husbands name upon marriage is not just a quaint "tradition" - look behind the assumptions and implications inherent in erasing your identity by changing your surname.

Am delighted to see that the French have taken some steps towards removing this ludicrous anachronism of defining and naming a woman by her marital status.

In the state of Quebec, women have to make a specific application to change their names after marriage. It is not an automatic process - women HAVE to make an active decision to change their surname to that of their husband, like doing so by deed-poll in this country. The default position is that your maiden name remains your "legal" name regardless of marital status.

I love it when women use feminism as an excuse to attempt to dictate to other women how they should identify themselves.

Oh no wait. No I don't, it's shitty and the antithesis of what feminism should be about.

Changing your name on marriage isn't automatic in this country either. Of you didn't notify the bank, ask to change your driving lucence etc nothing would change. A klaxon doesn't notify the authorities that a women now has a male owner you know.