Rape is worse when it happens to men

[AyeRobot]

According to the New York Times

Luckily, there are some brilliant women around to help the NYT out

Yes, the Patriarchy hurts men too. Why can't they just say that? Then there could be some useful public debate about what to do about it.

Oh must go and watch Call the Midwife...

Right, back, had my weekly cry through that, yes I get what you're saying Valar.

I'm still thinking about the subject of prey. It's an interesting word in this context, because I think it's central to the awfulness of rape for both men and women. I think it's great that being raped hasn't made you see yourself as prey NKU, but when I got raped, my first realisation was just how cleverly I had been preyed upon - my rapist set the situation up, to enable him to rape me and get away with it. It was classic predatory behaviour, and oh yes, I definitely was the prey and felt it.

And the thing is, we are told to feel like prey: that's what all those bloody offensive ads for licensed cabs and "don't get raped" messages are about: telling women that we are prey and that if we don't take precautions, the predators will get us and it will be partly our fault because we didn't take the right precautions.

And then at the same time, there's an "othering" of the victims - they didn't take the right precautions, they got drunk, they made themselves vulnerable to predators - so they're prey, but we're not, because we wouldn't make those mistakes. (The magical thinking we're so assiduously encouraged to adopt.) So at the same time as being encouraged to think of ourselves as prey, we're also encouraged to "other" those people who are actually preyed upon.

And men aren't subjected to any of this shit. They are not constantly told to regard themselves as potential prey (except of evil women who are just itching to falsely accuse them of rape). So when they do get preyed upon, it's a fucking enormous shock. They have never been prepared, to become prey.

The thing about the NYT article, is that it accepts as a starting point, that women have actually been prepared for it. Which is a really difficult one, because we have and we haven't. (And some of us internalise the messages and some of us reject them and many of us do both at the same time because human beings are complex.) But men definitely haven't. Which is why that article implies, very subtly, that it's worse for men. I had to read it twice to get it - it's so nebulously done, I suspect the author is probably not even aware herself, of what she's saying here. I doubt she's trying to say it's worse for men, I'm sure she'd be horrified at the idea, but that's the unconscious assumption in there, I think.

Sorry for the long meander but thanks for using that word SinicalSal it got me thinking.

I'll read the articles in a minute, but just thought that something I heard this week fits here.

I friend of work told us that her son, when he was 15 was raped by a woman of 35.

The woman did not go to prison, and my friend was told comments such as 'it's every boy's dream, he must be delighted' and 'well his penis worked, so he must have enjoyed it' and 'it wasn't really rape if he took part'.

From that perspective, I should imagine that his experience was worse than the same for a 15 year old girl.

However, in general I don't think anyone should EVER play 'top trumps' with trauma. Victims are victims, and no matter how much we fail to empathise, we should sympathise and support.

That's the direction I think I was heading in Basil, in a muddled way - thanks for the clarity.

I think it does tie in with 'Intercourse', and there are connections to be made with the relative status' relations in gay male relationships, with the penetrated partner being of lower status. I don't know if that holds in the gay community itself but it certainly does in wider society, even if only (or perhaps more relevantly?) among homophobes. I think it dates back to the Ancient Greek older man/younger boy set-ups.

Being 'fucked' is not good, it's not a position of respect and power, yet that's a womans' function, it's something men do not something that's done to them.
It's a curse word.

SQ : it's interesting that you should say that. One if the things I thought, but didn't say in the other thread about the Canadian Antirape campaign posters, is that while it is relatively easy from a feminist point of view to argue that both men and women can be raped but that women are raped more often (99% percent of rape victims have been found to be female in one study, for example), and that women can actually rape/sexually assault men Or women (1%) the popular perception is that rape is a gendered crime, with women as the victims.
As a result, male victims of rape -whether gay or not- are perceived to "have been made the woman" by the fact of their assault, or as another poster put it "made their bitch". Being raped is something that happens to women, it is "part" of their "feminine identity", as it were, an occupational hazard of their biology. This I think feeds into the idea that it is somehow worse for men when they are raped, because as the article states they have had their masculinity threatened, by being made into a woman by their attacker. Their superiority as the sex that rapes, rather than is raped, is called into question. It is thus, the repetition of a patriarchal value, that being a women is not equal to being a man and that masculinity has to be founded on the subordination of the female sex.
Complete crap, but very much a part of how society appears to view rape, in my opinion. If rape could be better understood as an abuse of power by one person over another simply because they are in a position of power in the first place, rather than something relate to "sex" and relationships, this kind of debate or the article cited by the OP.
And I'm with KRITIQ on not wanting to create a hierarchy of rape victims, neither by sex nor reproductive ability. She speaks wise words.

"this kind of debate or article cited by the OP would be unnecessary" .
Sorry, I'm not sure how I managed to delete part of my post there.

I felt much more secure and safe when I was visibly pregnant. It was lovely. I wonder if most men generally feel like that when out and about in the daytime?

Also at the first fem conference there were hardly any men there and it felt really different.

I think that certainly when I was younger I was aware of eyes on me all the time, of being constantly appraised, even if you don't notice it consciously you notice subconsciously. And of course there is always this underlying prey thing.

I imagine that there are plenty of situations where men feel vulnerable (chucking out time sometimes, gang of yobs, that sort of thing), but it's not quite as pervasive and constant as for young women and girls.

Just thinking out loud.

ferncroft - what a completely idiotic moronic and ignorant post

And addressing us from what planet are you from is FernCroft!
Having been reflecting on the prey thing, I was thinking but I never thought of myself as prey despite being sexually assaulted on more than one occasion. I think I tried to find a way around that feeling through being promiscious, "if I offer it on a plate, then it would be very hard for someone to make me a victim"
Perhaps some of the pyschology behind slut shaming as well, that by being 'slutty', we the women, deny the masculinity of viewing themselves as 'the predators'.
I don't think I'm explaining myself very clearly but it is just musings for the most part anyway.

Frida that makes a lot of sense.

I know a few women who are very promiscuous. They feel that they are in some way removing themselves from the role of victim too. That they are empowered and removing the danger from sex.

Whilst i can understand the thinking behind it, i can't agree.

I think that inevitably predatory men will see that as you "give it up" so readily you can't possibly refuse their advances. Thus making you more likely to find yourself assaulted.