Rape is worse when it happens to men

[AyeRobot]

According to the New York Times

Luckily, there are some brilliant women around to help the NYT out

Yes, the Patriarchy hurts men too. Why can't they just say that? Then there could be some useful public debate about what to do about it.

As a woman who has been raped by their then partner many times with varying levels of violence attached i can assure you that there is a vat difference between a person who has gone along with sex without "really being up for it" and rape.

Rape is an act of violence in itself. To physically force yourself upon and unwilling partner.
If a man was truly and unwilling partner rather than just a "i probably shouldn't be doing this" then she wouldn't be able to force herself upon him.

I have known very strong women who are still easily over powered by a physically smaller man. Without the added complication of manoeuvring what would undoubtedly be a flaccid penis inside of her.

Now Whilst there is evidence of rape victims becoming involuntarily aroused during rape the occurrences are very rare.

I am sorry but I do not consider someone having regrettable sex rape, and I actually consider it bloody insulting to genuine victims of rape to attempt to compare the two

Sorry - I was not trying to equal regretted sex with rape - that would be indeed wrong.

But I think that especially if a rape happened in a relationship or date rape situation a rape victim of any gender will have to try and defend themselves of the "regrettable sex" accusation. A man will get the "but you got an erection so it can't have been rape" defense thrown at them on top of it.

(I also believe for rape to be rape it doesn't mean that the victim has to actively physically try to fight it - this is exactly the kind of wrong reasoning which makes it so hard to secure convictions)

The fact is, as SQ pointed out, people who have sex they regret, don't report rape.

That's just a rape myth.

People who report rape, have in 96-98% of cases, been raped.

Yes, but what doesn't follow from this is that only people who report rape have been raped.

listen to Basil, she says it true

Interesting conversation and apologies for not being part of it.

I didn't post for "but it's worse for women" reasons, although the NYT started that particular set up. I was more interested in the idea that it was men's sense of masculinity that was the "+1" and was an extra effect of rape on men that women don't face in terms of their corresponding femininity. And that sense of masculinity is accepted as valid and well-defined whereas femininity is...what? Either not well-defined (which I reject) or defined perfectly well as to not be damaged by unwanted penetration because penetration is what women are there for.

Am I missing something?

Well I can see that a male rape victiim will have the trauma of "i should have fought him off" "how could he have over powered me" "Did he think i was gay" etc etc.

But i think that is a different facet to the trauma, rather than an over riding one. I think that many female victims do indeed have very similar thoughts.

yes i agree that not only those that report a rape have been raped. It is estimated at something like as little as 13% of rapes are ever reported. The figures are depressingly low. But with the judicial system as bias as it is then it is no surprise.

I think fewer male victims than female ones, will have the self-blaming "did I lead him on?" "why didn't I say No outright, instead of just thinking I was making it obvious I didn't want it?" thoughts.

But they're obviously not as devastating as having your masculinity threatened.

OH btw thanks for teaching me to suck eggs, WW.

We already know that between 60 and 90% of women who are raped, never report it.

the word that springs to mind is 'prey'
it must indeed be a hell of a shock when you are not accustomed to thinking of yourself in that way. Of course that applies to individuals of both genders - maybe the writer (subconsciously or otherwise) expects it to apply to everybody of one gender?
Which is interesting in different ways depending on gender of author.

The question itself is unjustified. All rape is harmful had has terrible consequences for the victim. It doesn't need to be reduced to a competition between whether men or women suffer more.

I read somewhere that most women who are raped, are raped when they are under the age of 20.

Is that right?

Because when you're young, you haven't yet grown accustomed to thinking of yourself as prey.

Being raped shows you you are.

I wonder if women in general are aware that many men see them as prey, or if that is something that women who have been raped or sexually assaulted are more likely to be aware of?

And yes, to find yourself prey, is a horrific shock to the system for anyone. Not just men.

Just musing really.

Basil sorry, never intended to patronise you anymore than you are trying to patronise me.

I think that a lot of women and girls end up engaging in potentially destructive sexual behaviours as a result of being raped. People going on to have relationships with the rapist, sleeping with lots of people, this sort of thing. I don't know if that would be so likely the other way around.

There is also a thing with a removal of a woman's self confidence - especially if the man was "normal" and there was nothing to mark him apart from other men - in those cases a very basic trust is damaged often irrepairrably (can't spell that) and relationships suffer. There is a very fundamental idea that "any man who wants to can do this" and I'm not sure if that is quite the same for men who are raped if they are straight - it's just a different sort of thing.

Actually, I do think that the harm to women from possible or actual pregnancy and fertility-affecting STDs needs to be recognised.

As I said, why is the NYT proposing that unwanted penetration has an additional affect for men (in a kind of everything else is equal sense) because of the assault on their masculinity? It's fascinating and ties in the with the Book Club book this month, I think.

I had a relationship with my rapist, I dated him afterwards

I make no secret of that

he was a "normal" bloke, as far as society will tell us

he didn't jump out of an alleyway

he wasn't a stranger to me

he still raped me though

What's the book club this month Aye?

Basil, I don't and will not see myself as prey,
I was raped when I was a young girl.
Have very recently got past the I shouldn't have done this or should have done that and accepted that it wouldn't have mattered what I did or didn't do.

The man who raped me would have attacked someone that day, it wasn't personal to me, it was him. it is about him all about him and nothing to do with me at all.

I do not think that most men see women as prey, I think rapists see women as prey and I believe that most men are not rapists.

I think the main correlation with age is due to date rape basil.
I think that you may have a point with regards to seeing yourself as prey.

As we get older we are more conscious of dangers around us, and we are more wary about the situations we allow ourselves to be in. AS younger more carefree women we are less likely to be double guessing every situation.

does that make sense? I don't want it to sound like "younger women put themselves at risk" as thats not what i mean, just that older women are more likely to perhaps judge a situation as risky due to her prior acceptance that she is prey.

I think it is an interesting theory

Intercourse

I just read the article again actually and it doesn't make much sense.

The first story is about a 14yo who was raped. It then goes on to say child abuse is accepted but not adult men who are raped, and there is this masculinity problem. So why the first example? A 14yo boy is a child, not an adult man. Seems a strange example to use.

Then the article says that straight men struggle with this loss of masculinity and should I have fought him off stuff. And gay men suffer from worrying they might have sent the wrong signals. Which is WTF? when you read it. So gay men aren't really like men, they are like women, no need to worry about their masculinity they worry about whether, what, their trousers were too tight or something?.... The whole thing is really skewed actually and hosts a whole load of damaging stereotypes and I've just decided that I really don't like it. It really seems to be saying that gay men aren't really men, they are women. Stupid load of crap.

Sorry have paraphrased rather a lot there and rather extremely! Just got a bit annoyed.

you didn't really need to re read it to get that did you SQ?

Yup I'm not that quick on the uptake!