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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Atheism and misogyny

188 replies

Dworkin · 29/12/2011 14:30

Some men sink to a new low when it comes to sexually objectifying a 15 year old girl on reddit. Sick and nasty stuff.

skepchick.org/2011/12/reddit-makes-me-hate-atheists/

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 16:38

For avoidance of doubt, the link in the OP is to a feministy website telling about how this 15yo was treated so atrociously when she posted a comment on the reddit athiest site (whatever that might be).

I also don't understand what is wrong with posting this link and it's a shame that lollygag's first response warned against clicking the link so I nearly didn't. And wants the poster banned for linking to porn Confused which is simply bizarre.

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 16:41

There is a big problem with sexism in all communities as far as i can see. For a natural lefty, the realisation that all the people in the middle and left were as bad as those on the right was a bit of a shocker and now I don't know what to do with my politics.

I mean look at Bob Crowe speaking (which I do as we know a lot of people who are members of his union) and ask yourself if he has the women's problems at the forefront of his mind. (Rhetorical question).

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 16:49

The phrase biological determinism is to me loaded with irony when coming from the mouths of male athiests. A pre determined set of rules; the old 'blue print' of life nonsense - I like The Smiths because it's in my genetic makeup. It's strangely analogous with the first book of the old testament: Genesis.

And regarding women's reproductive freedom, the phrase cause and effect comes to mind; and given that a lot of male atheists have a scientific background or a skeptical mind, they know exactly the cause and effect that controlling women has. They aren't that bothered because they think women are there for sexual gratification only.

When women do speak with intellect and intelligence they know they have to mind their p's and q's in RL; though the link suggests that, on the internet at least, the true nature is unleashed and unrestrained.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 16:55

Sorry just re-read my last post - I don't mean that everyone on the middle and left are sexist! But that they are just as bad as the right and everyone is as bad as each other basically.

forkful · 29/12/2011 16:58

Sardine -I know what you mean! As for your politics - they are now feminist politics. Grin

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 17:01

Also I mean when bob is on the telly I pay attention as what he says has an effect on people I know and the tubes and stuff.

Not that I buy DVDs of him speaking and use them for motivational purposes or entertainment or anything Grin

This thread isn't going very well for me, coherence-wise!

I tell you what though, seeing that reddit thing makes me really value MN.

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 17:04

I loved that link Forkful, especially this comment:

?Why are you concentrating on XX when XY is so much more important??

Now that's humour. And my politics is definitely 'feminist politics', proudly. :o

OP posts:
Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 17:08

I also want to make it clear that I wasn't deliberately being obscure in my OP. I just presumed that everyone on a feminist site knows that skepchic is an atheist feminist. Blush

Sardine, I know exactly what you mean :)

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 17:10

I didn't know about skepchic but I do now!

chibi · 29/12/2011 17:56

how funny, i read this eaier today or yesterday. i go on reddit now and then, this blog was linked to on one of the feminist subreddits (can't recall which one)

this blog is not dodgy, nor is reddit on the whole, though it does contain explicitly misogynist subreddits, as well as garden variety misogynist/sexist posts in other subreddits

it is disturbing to note that not only was the girl who posted a pic of herself with her xmas present (a carl sagan book?) underage, all the posters posting slimy comments about her were totally aware of that.

blee.

stuffedauberginexmasdinner · 29/12/2011 18:00

Thanks for those links forkful. I never knew that about Richard Dawkins, not that I was ever a fan anyway.

chibi · 29/12/2011 18:00

There was another good bloglink on reddit to sexism in geek culture, i will try to find it (i may be some time...)

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2011 20:05

The people posting on that thread weren't necessarily atheists. Popular reddit/atheism posts are also posted to the front page of reddit which opens them to a massive and non-specific internet audience.

Not justifying the posts on that thread in any way - reddit has some horrifically misogynistic content, but the post she made referencing her anus wasn't helpful in encouraging serious replies.

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 20:18

Is that not slang for something, rather than a sexual reference? The people commenting at the end seemed to think so, I admit that I am not personally au fait with internet slang amongst teens.

On the comments at the end someone said that if a teenage boy wrote "well fuck me" would that unleash a torrent of graphic / aggressive sexual comments?

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 20:20

And even if she had said something sexual, she is 15. Is it OK for men to post things at underage girls even if the girls are joining in in the same vein? What do ceop think?

Basically this was hundreds of men saying they wanted to rape her and they knew she was only 15 - there isn't any excuse for that at all.

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 20:21

Well some wanted to fuck her and some wanted to rape her.

But then if she's 15 and doesn't know them then it amounts to the same thing.

She just wanted to have a conversation about religion / philosohpy / athiesm and was met with that. What were they thinking? Well we know what they were thinking, and giving a flying fuck about how a 15yo girl might feel being on the receiving end of all that wasn't it.

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 20:24

It's just utterly depressing really isn't it.

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2011 20:58

Here is the 15 year old girl's response thread to the furore:
"Many people have messaged me apologizing for the creepy/sexual comments I received. Many others messaged me claiming I deserved them for saying "bracin' mah anus", which they thought was the green light for getting hit on. I just wanted to say a few things.
First of all, I want to say thanks to the people who were concerned about me and how I felt about r/atheism after the whole incident. I haven't lost my faith in all atheists (oh the irony!) but I did learn a little about how reddit and other websites work. As a girl, it's difficult sometimes. People assume things. They think I'm unintelligent, shallow, or desperate for attention. I got a lot of people voicing that to me after I made the post, including one of my friends in real life. One thing I want to clear up is that the intention of the post wasn't to get attention for being pretty. That wasn't even remotely it. The picture was originally intended for facebook, showing me smiling with a Sagan book my religious mother bought me for Christmas. Browsing reddit, the idea came across to me that it would be a touching thing to post, in light of the holiday season. A tale of an accepting mother and her daughter, perfect right? Apparently not.
Secondly, I can sort of understand why saying "bracin' mah anus" could have been construed sexually, especially with the comments surrounding it. When I orignally wrote that however, there were only a few comments on the post, and none of them had gotten sexual yet. I said it as a funny alternative to bracing myself (I'm fifteen. Saying anus is hilarious.) I can be a serious person, but most of the time I like to joke around. When the comments started to get more personal, like "what are you doing later", I replied with "hanging out with my boyfriend :D", the purpose to assuage the comments regarding me and my appearance . I'm in a really wonderful relationship but that's besides the point. When they replied with "WRONG ANSWER" I jokingly said something about being naked and single in a penthouse. People started to get sexual, and I think I can understand why, but what I don't understand why they would when I had just said I had a boyfriend, and the penthouse comment was obviously sarcastic.
A major topic of controversy was the fact I posted my face. I'm sorry I didn't realize I should have to wear a burka on r/atheism. That is all. Thanks for reading!
tl;dr: read the post you lazy bum"

She seems to have dealt with it rather well. A shame that skepchick decided to make her whole post a downer on atheists (when, as I said previously, the post probably made the front page of reddit and thus had a far wider audience) without making any comment on how well and articulately the 15 year old has dealt with it.

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 21:03

Nice bit of 'Yes, but..' there noblegiraffe.

The response to what happened to the 15 year old should be:

"This is totally unacceptable behaviour and this misogynistic and sexist behaviour should never be tolerated in any sphere of life."

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 29/12/2011 21:08

Dworkin, I said that there was no justification for the comments she received, just that referencing her anus wasn't helpful in encouraging serious replies. It is exactly the sort of thing that redditors would pick up and run with in any context.

AlwaysWild · 29/12/2011 21:15

Any context? Really? You think if a man had made a reference to his anus the other men on there would want to talk about fucking him?

forkful · 29/12/2011 21:23

A shame that skepchick decided to make her whole post a downer on atheists (when, as I said previously, the post probably made the front page of reddit and thus had a far wider audience).

So to noblegiraffe -presumably some of the responses on the skepchick blog are also not evidence of misogynist athiests either as we can't guarantee they are athiest. Confused

I guess Rebecca knows who here regular commenters are and whether they are athiests or not and if she says there is a big problem then I believe her.

Have you looked at the youtube video noblegiraffe? Vague sense of deja vu now re the thread on AIBU re misogynist attacks on female bloggers

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2011 21:26

It wouldn't be unheard of, tbh alwayswild. Reddit has a very very large audience. Some of them have a very strange sense of humour, some of them are plain weird, some of them go out of their way to be offensive....and some of them are gay.

noblegiraffe · 29/12/2011 21:29

forkful, I am not saying that there aren't misogynistic atheists at all. What I am saying is that saying that that thread makes you hate atheists in general is unfair.

It would be like starting a thread on Mumsnet feminism, having that thread (beyond your control) cross-posted to AIBU and Chat and their much wider audience, then having some offensive crap posted on your thread and writing a blog post 'Mumsnet makes me hate feminists'.

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