Happy Patriarchymas!

[thunderboltsandlightning]

I know, I know - but this is the feminist section and christmas is about celebrating the birth of the son of god, with women's spirituality and power completely written out of the story. It's the classic patriarchal mindfuck for women. Even Santa's a man, but who does most of the present-buying and wrapping?

Then there's the fact that christmas is all about women doing most of the work, with men enjoying the benefits.

Each year I find it a little more difficult to have to go through it all. Once you've seen what it's about, it gets harder to ignore the brainwashing.

Hope everybody has a happy peaceful time, whatever you are celebrating.

Have I done something to offend you Lolly?

thunder wow, what a sad, depressing view of life.

Really, just .

Yes! You're mindset is that of perpetual victim.You reference medieval witchhunts to 'prove' that women are still in 'servitude'.Get a grip.It's a good job the suffragettes didn't have the internet or they'd never have got anything done!

on the other hand, if they had been chirpy and happy with the status quo, and unwilling to look critically at how society was organised (even if sometimes it was a bit of a downer) who knows when women would have won the vote

Do you really find no joy in any of those occasions, in the coming together of family, in the celebration of life, in the magic for children??

there is more to this than whether any individual delights in a given festival, and whether that is sad

(in any case , there are plenty of festivals i have nothing to do with, eg diwali, and both me and diwali just roll on regardless, and i don't think that is particularly sad, or joyless)

aaaaaanyway

the most significant festivals in our culture are predicated on the goodwill and labour of women, for the most part, if they are to be clebrated and enjoyed as is the norm

viz: xmas - the tradition is a big slap up multi course meal, beautifully decorated house, thoughtfully chosen presents, cards for all and sundry - mostly, it is women who are making this possible (regardless of my own personal circumstances, or yours, or Betty Sue down the road)

i think it is no bad thing to look critically at these cultural events with a feminist lens - if the whole architecture of them is constructed on women's backs, well, it's not very magical to me, anyway

i wonder if a critical analysis should unpick the religious aspects from the cultural - i think there is misogyny to be found in both, but to me they are different. Are the different enough to merit being looked at seperately? what do other posters think?

"You reference medieval witchhunts to 'prove' that women are still in 'servitude'.Get a grip.It's a good job the suffragettes didn't have the internet or they'd never have got anything done!"

Bollocks. Can't you read what I wrote?

I mentioned the medieval (and renaissance) witchunts along with a whole lot of other crimes the christian church has committed and approved of, to illustrate what a violent woman-hating institution it is.

And my point about christmas is the psychological effect it has on women to be constantly bombarded by and having to take part in these male-worshipping festivals, festivals that have at their root the explotiation and erasure of women.

Your little dig was crap. The only person it shows up is you.

There are lots of festivals I don't celebrate - but that doesn't lessen the value of them to the people who do celebrate them.

A world with no Christmas, no birthday parties, no Easter egg hunt, that's not a world I, or any of my friends would enjoy.

Well it's not all 'constructed on women's backs' chibi.I like to credit the men who produce the electricity for the big day.And the men at the waterworks and the sewage plants.And the men who built the roads so we could go to the shopping centre.Oh and the men who built the shopping centre.And the men who work on the freighters who transport goods around the world.And the men who built the house that I live in and the hospital I sometimes visit.Actually if I look out my window everything that I see was built by men!
Maybe they do have some uses.

i had a great xmas this year, as did my family

it was not predicated on wifework, or on expecations that i was somehow responsible for everyone's happiness, even where it was to the detriment of my own

i am not saying this to boast, but just to clarify, i really don't think it has to be a choice between festivals which depen on women's servitude, or a joyless existance devoid of celebration

it just seems like a false choice

and 'well i enjoy doing x y z for my family' doesn't negate this argument - have a look at the many many many threads over the last few days in relationships or christmas borads posted by women at the end of their tether precisely because of the cultural expectations that they are responsible for producing the whole megillah

lollygag, are you missing the points of my posts on purpose, or am i being unclear?

i posted:

xmas - the tradition is a big slap up multi course meal, beautifully decorated house, thoughtfully chosen presents, cards for all and sundry - mostly, it is women who are making this possible (regardless of my own personal circumstances, or yours, or Betty Sue down the road)

in theory we could do an oscar style list of people throughout history to thank, but most people's experience of xmas and other holidays probably relies on the experiences more close to home

or if you like, we could also give thanks to the women who gave birth to and raised all those fabulous men, and their mothers too, from whom they likely learned precepts of childrearing, and their mothers as well...

YIKES at the great long list

Men make all the electricity do they

Must be static from their xmas jumpers.

That's a sexist comment! (but quite funny).

chibi you are right.We should give thanks to the women who raised all those fabulous men.Absolutely.

Interesting. Of course we should have celebrations and enjoy them - but also be allowed to look at them critically and see what they mean and what really happens during the festivities. In a patriarchal societies celebrations are probably going to be centered around men in some way and women are going to do the boring work - most of the cooking, cleaning, shopping etc.

There are a lot of wonderful things about the winter holiday season. When we understand what is bad about it (women doing all the work etc), we can begin changing it to something better.
Wishing you all a patriarchy-free Yule as possible next year :)

But wouldn't it be better to raise the bar for everyone than try to remove the enjoyment of those who do like the occasions?

Oh shit I forgot a after my little joke there!

i don't think that anyone is saying that you can't enjoy xamas as you wish, even where that means that the lion's share of the work undertaken to facilitate it is done by you

i think the point is that we can look at it critically, and from the premise that a just society is not one where festivals mainly (sewage works notwithstanding) depend on the labnur of one sex, primarily to glorify the other sex

ee by gum

xmas, not xamas obv.

Labnur sounds like a rude word.