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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

letting the MRA trolls win

134 replies

feministcrashdummy · 29/11/2011 16:19

Seems to me like this is what has happened.

Yes, the attacks we had from MRATs were appaling. Yes, MNHQ's response was disappointing, to say the least.

But has it really come to the point where we are so sceptical that we justify ourselves spouting venom at each other?

We namechange to protect our privacy but it leaves us vulnerable to attack from within ourselves.

How is this not letting them win?

If they wanted to 'divide and conquer' then they have surely succeeded Sad.

Personally, and I understand why this might not be the choice for others, I'm going to stay. I'll keep fighting the partiarchy, in whatever way I can. I have nothing to prove to anyone else. I'll keep namechanging to keep under the MRATs' radars even if means I'm flying solo.

OP posts:
ElderberrySyrup · 01/12/2011 10:02

and MNHQ have had it pointed out to them before that it is not the usual definition and they have replied 'so we have been told', so it's not an oversight.

They might be working to a different definition on occasion, but that is the one they state in their policy.

SinicalSal · 01/12/2011 10:03

Rhubarb, I see your point, but I think the difference is that most people are firstly quick to recognise racist speech, and secondly find it unacceptable. There's the weight of numbers there. Recognising and responding to misogynist speech is about 30 years behind, imo.

I think it was Eleanor on another thread who said that objecting to hate speech of all kinds doesn't speed up progress, it is the process of progression. Paraphrased rather badly but you get the jist.

swallowedAfly · 01/12/2011 10:05

ok if this is going to turn into another one of those 30 page threads about how the feminists are wrong to not want to be trolled i'm out of here. they tend to rapidly turn into the 'a feminist was mean to me once therefore they're all a bunch of bitches and it's ok for me to slag them off for thirty pages' threads.

haven't got the energy for another one.

TheRhubarb · 01/12/2011 10:20

swallowedAfly keep your hair on. There really is no need for comments like that.

It is never acceptable for anyone to be trolled and it happens right across the board. In fact it happens right across the internet. Now I do keep up with the feminist threads and I can honestly say that recently I have seen more trolls on the chat and AIBU threads than on feminism. In fact the Doghouse just a few weeks ago were complaining that they were targeted most often.

I think if you post frequently on one topic and see a few trolls you do tend to think that yours is the topic they target, but in fact they target all areas of Mumsnet.

Yes there are the 13 year old trolls who just go around with ridiculous rape jokes and hatred spouting and from what I can see, MNHQ does usually act swiftly once they are reported. Their comments are deleted and that person usually gets thrown off the board. However there are some who are much more subtle, they might start off with "what about the men?" type of comment that then grows into something more vile. I believe that these are the type of people who believe in what they are saying and I would rather tackle them head on than silence them.

However I can understand feminists wanting to discuss topics without this danger of being constantly interrupted. Thing is, Mumsnet isn't a feminist board and whilst there are feminists who post here and there is a feminist topic, it's not a site primarily for feminists. So misogynists and racists are able to post on here and I can understand the offence that causes. But I really do sit on the fence because I wouldn't want this to be a closed forum.

ElderberrySyrup · 01/12/2011 10:23

hear hear SaF. I'm out.

SinicalSal · 01/12/2011 10:23

Right so. I'm off too

AyeBelieve · 01/12/2011 10:25

Wait for me! Just putting my coat on.

TheRhubarb · 01/12/2011 10:30

Well it's a pity you don't do that when the trolls are around....

thunderboltsandlightning · 01/12/2011 10:33

The trolls are disrupting actual feminist discussions. This isn't a feminist discussion, this is someone who has a beef with some people here but won't talk about what it is. There's not a lot to say to it really unless the OP is more specific.

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/12/2011 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/12/2011 11:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MillyR · 01/12/2011 11:35

My dogs and my cock (as in the male version of a chicken!) are on FB.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 11:39

I can't find where madwoman said we shouldn't talk off-board?

Surely we have to ... I'm off to the Porn Conference this Saturday, of course I'm not going to sit there on my own pretending I don't recognize anyone and never talked about any of these issues online.

It's not sensible to organize this stuff on MN because lots of people don't want to post their real names on a board that can so easily be searched.

Tyr · 01/12/2011 11:51

ElderberrySyrup Thu 01-Dec-11 10:00:28

from Mumsnet troll policy: 'We thought it was about time we outlined and explained Mumsnet policy on the thorny issue of trolls. (For those who don't know, a troll is someone who poses as someone else in order to stir up trouble, fulfil their own perverted agenda, or just for the hell of it.)'

I would have thought that applied to people who try to annex a board on a parenting site, despite not being parents, post views that many find offensive and then complain that others who disagree post on it. Why on earth would anyone want to do that when it is simple to start your own forum?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 11:55

I hope my views aren't offensive but I think it's bugger all to do with me being a parent or not.

Tyr · 01/12/2011 11:58

LRD,

I don't mind what your views are and I'd be the first to defend your right to voice them, regardless of what I thought of them.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 12:01

Ah, ok. Thanks for that.

What I was actually trying to say was that it's a bit off to have a go at posters who're not parents. If MN wanted non-parents to leave, they'd say so. They don't say so.

If it is any consolation to you, I should think I'm more unhappy about me not being a parent than you are.

TheRhubarb · 01/12/2011 12:05

I kinda made that point earlier on LRD - Mumsnet is open to everyone; dog lovers; parents; fans of Twilight etc. So you are bound to get lots of differing views and some of those views we might find offensive.

Still can't work out what the OP is talking about though? Has she had some offensive private messages? Perhaps she was hoping the culprits would read this thread?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 12:10

I think you're missing the point TBH rhubarb.

TheRhubarb · 01/12/2011 12:14

What of? The OP? That trolls should be banned? That Mumsnet should make the board safer? That feminism should be a closed topic?

Or do you just want me to agree with you to make it easier?

LeBOF · 01/12/2011 12:17

Sometimes I do, Rhubarb, yes Grin

TheRhubarb · 01/12/2011 12:19

I agree with everything you say LeBOF Grin

LeBOF · 01/12/2011 12:19

Aaanyhoo, I agree with whoever said that this thread is boxing shadows. We can't really discuss an issue if it's not clear what the issue is.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/12/2011 12:24

No, I don't want you to agree with me - I think the problem is that you think this is all about agreement. You reckon that what I'd call a troll, is what you'd see as simply a person who disagrees and whose views offend me. It's true that sometimes, you can't avoid disagreeing with someone when you really find their view offensive, and sometimes in the course of disagreements, someone will get offended. But it isn't that. This is about people who are deliberately trying to upset people, and the fact they hold radically different views is, IMO, only the motivation that makes them start trolling. The trolling itself is exactly what MN defines trolling as - they're putting on a persona in order to cause upset. IMO.

Anyhow, I agree with BoF, this is a side issue to the thread.

TheRhubarb · 01/12/2011 12:27

What is the definition of a troll? Not necessarily a name-changer. But are you saying that they don't actually hold those views at all? That they merely come on to make trouble? See, I think they DO hold those views and are delighted at finding a forum where they can express their ignorant views.

It makes the trolls look foolish and pathetic imo.

But I don't think this is all about agreement at all. No-one will ever agree on the troll issue, even the very definition of a troll is under dispute.

This thread can only side-track, we don't know the OP's point to argue it.