Would this comment have frustrated you?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

I've just been to Prize Giving at DD1's school, which a girls' grammar.

They have just achieved 99.7% pass rate for A levels and are very proud of the girls' achievements.

Why then did the Head Of Governors open the proceedings with this comment?

"Welcome... I shall now move along to the most enjoyable part of the evening, seeing the girls' beautiful dresses as they parade across the stage to collect their awards."

It was obviously only a a small part of the night, but it totally flummoxed and disappointed me.

Am I being super-critical?

Who needs a pit? This is the feminism section you know, it's a permanent nest of vipers

In all seriousness, I would have been furious if this had happened to my (as yet non-existent) DD or my younger self. But that does NOT mean I would approach the school aggressively - and would always try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Something along the lines of "I'm sure it was just nerves and the HoG didn't mean to sound as though the dresses were the most important enjoyable aspect of the evening, we all make mistakes under pressure, I just think it's vital that the school stays focused on what is really important - the fantastic achievements of the pupils. They get enough messages about what they look like outside of school after all "

A nudge is often as good as a punch in the face, after all

I think grumpla is right about the 'gentle nudge' - apart from anything else, it has the right undertone of 'wow, you're a dinosaur aren't you?'

At 18 I would have been really upset by that comment - I was self-conscious enough about walking across a stage without that comment, and although some teenagers may have reached the stage of being utterly confident in their looks and dress sense, loads won't and will be feeling self-conscious.

Btw, not focusing on that because I think it's less important than the fact it's a totally inappropriate, rather creepy comment - but I know exactly how I would have reacted back then.

Congratulations to your DD Chaos.

Wearing??.Rather pompous diction?Disagreeing is fine. No idea why you have to assert that.

LRD - exactly my thoughts.

Its a tactless comment. I am sure to the HoG all the girls did look beautiful, but from my experience, amongst themselves there would been huge gradations of who looked more or less thinner/prettier/more confident/better dressed etc...with all the teenaged angst that goes along with that. Since they weren't going up for a fashion show or a beauty contest why mention what they look like at all.

Himalaya - yes, you put that better than me.

It's not a fashion show. And in a work environment (which, if these were the 18-year-olds, is where they're going to next), it'd be very inappropriate to comment on the dress-sense of women employees en masse, so I think it's not right here.

IME, the more time teenage girls have taken to get ready and the more concerned they were to look nice, the less they'll appreciate a comment like that. If she wanted to say something, the time to do it would be if there's an opportunity to chat afterwards, when it'd be fine to say 'by the way, I like your dress'.

?? Pot shots. At FS? If by that you mean disagreeing with some posters from time to time, and 'outing' someone who made a dreadful and aggressive slur on me, then of course. < I am curious about the evidence of what you say butthis thread isn't about you, me or the FS in geneal>

"Welcome... I shall now move along to the most enjoyable part of the evening, seeing the boys' finery as they parade across the stage to collect their awards."

Wow, that comes across either
sexual
sarcastic
or diminishing the awards to being just the excuse for the finery.

I really can't believe that so many of you think it's either creepy or inappropriate for the HoG to tell the girls, who had made a real effort to dress for the occasion, that they looked lovely. If I'd put that much bloody effort into dressing for an occasion and no-one remarked on it then I'd be pissed off.

I don't even have an issue with the way she phrased it. It's the part she enjoys the most. So shoot her for enjoying seeing the girls looking lovely & looking grown up. However, I can just about see the objection to her saying it, just about.

But to call it creepy because she appreciated the effort they'd made and how lovely they looked??

Do none of you tell a bride she looks lovely?... and no, that's not the point of the wedding. The point of a wedding is to get married - you can do that just as easily in jeans & a t-shirt. Social convention is that we 'dress' for the occasion and people remark on how lovely the bride looks - this is no different.

She didn't say it was the part she enjoys most

She said it was the most enjoyable part of the evening

Seeing the girls "parade" in their beautiful dresses

ie like a beauty contest, not an event to celebrate academic achievement

Chipping, for me it's just that I know when I was 18, I would have hated that comment.

I put a huge amount of effort into how I dressed. I'm afraid I still felt very self-conscious, because I felt as if all the other girls were prettier, or thinner, or had nicer clothes. It's only now I realized most of us felt that way!

At my wedding loads of people told both me and DH we looked great - but that's a social ceremony, which I do think is different. It's not as if the vicar said 'now we come to join these two together in holy matrimony - the most enjoyable part of which, for the bride, is wearing a lovely dress'. The head was in the same sort of formal, officiating position, and should have behaved more appropriately IMO.

(Seriously: how creepy would it be to have the vicar at your wedding commenting how 'enjoyable' he found seeing your dress? When he's meant to be making a legal and religious contract for you? Crikey.

Sorry, total digression but it cheers me to think there actually are more dodgy wedding possibilities than the priest availed himself of for us.)

haven't read the whole thread, but the remark (I enjoy looking at the girls!) is objectifiying, if not actually creepy.

In fact, remove the creep aspect all together. An event supposed to be about the girls' intellectual achievments was framed in the context of them being pleasant and enjoyable to look at - suddenly their worth was taken away from their control (work hard, study) and put into the eyes of the beholder (you are enjoyable to look at, wheras you.. oh dear...).

It's not the end of the world, it's not the ruin of their evening, it's not the triumph of the nazi state... but it is an unnecessary moment of objectification in the very moment when the girls were being valued for their achievements, - in other words, their subject-ness not their object-ness.

Not the end of the world. Just unnecessary sexism that detracts from their value as people.

Just like the real world really.

blackcurrants post

The HoG is not there to talk about what she/he enjoys most aboutthe event. They are not in attemdance in a personal capacity, they are representing the school. Their job is to set the tone for the event, congratulate the studenst on their achievemnts and wish them well in the future

In this context the commenst were inappropriate. Its NOT the same as an individual parent /friend saying to a student that she loosk lovely /pretty dress /cool shoes /whatever

Tianc illustrates the point best IMO.

I think things like this should be called out. I'd be writing to the school.

Nothing wrong with telling them they all look fabulous.

Everything wrong with saying that seeing them parade their beautiful dresses is the most enjoyable part of the evening.

a) what everyone else has said - it reminds the girls that however clever they are, their parading their lovely dresses/ arses/ breasts is the thing everyone enjoys most about them

b) it's not even telling them they look nice. It's saying their bloody dresses do. It's praising bloody Top Shop (or wherever teenage girls get academic award dresses from nowadays).

Thank you all for your comments.

I really appreciate everybody's viewpoint.

A few things to point out:

Yes that really is all she said, "Hello. Welcome. Thanks. Press on to most enjoyable part - parading of beautiful dresses." [paraphased slightly]

The choir and orchestra gave lovely recitals.

The headteacher gave a very proud and encouraging speech.

The speaker told marvellous inspiring tales of acheivement in a male dominated world.

After giving it some thought I now wonder whether it was a veiled, although still unacceptable and gauche, comment about the well known tedium of the night? The girls all came out with thank fuck it's over faces, exactly as I did 25 years ago.

Nothing changes.

LOL.

I suppose it's better than saying: "and now, let's move on to the part of the ngiht where we hope someone makes a terrible gaffe just to liven everything up a bit."

Actually, thinking about it, no it's not.

That would hvae been better.

hmm,

I work in a mixed school - and both boys & girls get complimented on the efforts that they make to look good for 'graduation' (from middle school ffs, but that's a different matter).

I think the problem is, that if you say 'don't all our young people look wonderful today' it's fine. but focussing on just one sex (either one) makes it sound like you're looking at them for their looks alone

Well, in this case it's a girls' school so there's no possibility of complimenting both genders ...

But I agree, it would be fine, even nice, to mention that the students looked nice and to acknowledge the effort they'd made. I think the problem here is the 'most enjoyable part of the evening' bit, which may just have been a badly put effort to lighten the tedium, but which does give the impression that a girl's appearance is the priority.

yeah - something along the lines of 'it's frivolous, but I love to see ...'

feminists (even clever ones) can enjoy a bit of frou frou as well