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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What Does Being a Feminist in 2011 Mean To You?

145 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/11/2011 12:21

I know this has been done before but I think it's nice to do it again.

I'd like one or two comments on what feminism means to you, or what you feel is a particularly important feminist issue to you right now, in 2011. I'll get the ball rolling because if memory serves, this was the conclusion of the last discussion like this:

  • Do you believe men and women deserve to be treated equally?
  • Do you think think this is happening yet?

If the answers are 'yes' and 'no!'', then collect your feminism stamp on the way in, and let's hear you ....

OP posts:
LeBOF · 10/11/2011 20:18

I'm not sure I think it quite works though- women as a group (excepting some individuals in certain circumstances) don't have what men do, in terms of income, positions of power etc, relatve freedom from sexual violence etc etc. even in the developed world. Although it is important to acknowledge that we are in a much better position than women in many other places, I agree with that.

louderthanbombs · 10/11/2011 21:01

Feminism to me, right now, means teaching my DDs that they don't have to live up to the physical ideals that seem to be forced on us, for them to be accepted as worthwhile people. I hope that they will be happy within themselves.

I agree with blackcurrants, that it is about liberating girls and women from what is expected of them, socially.

This is a lovely, thought-provoking thread Smile

LeninGrad · 10/11/2011 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

slubadub · 10/11/2011 21:36

You're right LeBOF, my post was somewhat presumptuous, coming from the privileged perspective of someone brought up by her father to believe she can do better than any man, and to not brook any nonsense from any of them - and, in the main, not having received any. That is extremely fortunate, even within the developed world. Issues outside the developed world are beyond the remit of my posts, I am simply (literally?) not qualified to comment.

Sticking to what I do know about, within the developed world where basic societal structures exist to allow women to progress in ways that our predecessors couldn't, and whilst not overstating the power of such an effect, I do believe that 'trickle down' has a part to play. It's about attitudes, and education. We all want better for our children than we had. My upbringing was avant garde for its time but is now far more prevalent. The policies and practices that women of power spear-headed for me and my parents to follow were hugely inspiring. And the debate around the issues that you raise (equal pay for equal work, access to positions of power, 'outing' and punishment of violence against women etc) has also flourished in my lifetime - not proportionately, or enough, but there is far more awareness of and willingness to deal with these issues than there was in the mid-70s, and that work will go on until it's done. This is all great, I think. Now I want more for our daughters: I want what I had to be taken for granted. I want the things that made us exclaim in wonderment to be par for the course for them, and if that happens I think that attitude will colour and hopefully re-direct the course of public debate on the above issues. I want my daughter to exclaim in astonishment that in her mother's lifetime it was ever possible that a woman should be paid less than a man for doing the same job. I want her to ask me why that should ever have been so, and how we could ever have stood for it. I want her to dismiss out of hand men who inflict violence in the home as bullies - and for this to be the attitude amongst all her friends (male and female) at school, and university and in the workplace. These children will go on to write books and newspaper articles, debate in parliament, become judges, become TV pundits and mainstream commentators. Changing public perception takes time and effort, but it can and does and will, I believe, happen. The chief benefit of the privileged upbringing I had is that I can pass it on and it will benefit so many more people than just me, long after my father is gone.

Beyond that, and in even more niche terms, I want my daughter's personal fulfilment to come from what is right for her as a woman, not from what is the prevailing - and therefore man's - definition of fulfilment. I don't want her to have to succeed by a man's definition of success - a long and succesful career, single-minded pursuit of one's personal goals, a fat salary, material success - oh, and some shiny kids somewhere along the way that someone (who me?) will be looking after. I want her to make it on her own terms - I want it to be okay to be a woman with a woman's tendencies and inclinations, with all the positives and negatives that means. And I firmly believe that once it's okay for women to be emotional creatures with different priorities to men, to accept and, heck, rejoice in and make something of their differences from men, this effect will trickle down. I don't want domestic violence to be considered by women themselves to be too shameful to report, or back from reporting domestic violence for fear of the consequences. I don't want a woman raped by her husband to wonder whether she brought it upon herself by not doing this or that for him. I don't want women to not even know that they are being underpaid compared to their male subordinates. Why should any of this ever be so?

This, in its small way, is how I bring feminism into my home in 2011. Sorry for the long post!

Trills · 10/11/2011 21:47

I read it as moving on from wanting what men have got (because we don't actually have it) to instead thinking about what we actually want.

If you think of the 80s feminist shoulderpad career woman stereotype as "wanting what men have got" and rejecting what women traditionally had (which is the 50s pinny SAHM stereotype).

We now see that no-one should have to act they way that men have traditionally been expected to act (breadwinning, stiff upper lip, most definitely not in a caring profession or working with children), and individuals should be allowed to aim for different things according to their own inclinations and not be treated differently or held back or encouraged more or less because of their gender.

"Having what men have" has not been achieved, but it is not a good enough goal, IMO. I want everyone (men included) to have better than that.

WoTmania · 10/11/2011 21:59

Yes and No

At the moment, for me, feminism it about the small scale. Family and friends type stuff (and petitions to get stupid FB pages down etc) like pointing out to my family that when the DSs played with the vacuum cleaner everyone just laughed where as when DD did it they said 'oh, look. She knows what to do with that' (so I suppose prejudging her because she's a girl), and picking them up on any.
Also backing up my friends and discussing with them their concerns/complaints about how their children are pushed into gender role (and them thinking about, even when they WOH they are expected to pick up kids from school childcare if they are ill)

LeBOF · 10/11/2011 22:02

That's a fantastic post, slubadub- sign me up for that Grin

Hullygully · 10/11/2011 22:23

I see mine wasn't quite in the spirit.

Ah well. So old and tired.

Trills · 10/11/2011 22:27

I liked your post Hully

DamnBamboo · 10/11/2011 22:27

I haven't read the whole thread and I've never posted in here before but just today, I was thinking about posting in here regarding something that is needling me! Just really getting to me. Anyway, will do so later, but in response to thread

YES and NO to questions 1 and 2 respectively. Question 2, or should I say my answer to question 2 is what has been really riling me lately and I'm actually quite upset and angry about how things over the last few months (which have never happened to me before) have made me feel. I'm sick and tired of being treated as a lesser being simply because I'm female. It has become apparent that this is the case, and I am pissed off.

Fortunately, I grew up in a house of three brothers who are all feminists and a husband who is as affronted as me at my being disregarded for my opinions simply for being a woman.

Sorry, bit of a blurt and a bit emotional but I hope I can come back later and post my views overall.

slubadub · 10/11/2011 22:36

I hear you too, Hully, it is tiring, it can be demoralising, and too often it can feel like one has to run to stay still. But you're still here on the Feminism/Women's Rights board, you're still posting, you're still reading - and you're not alone. Some things we can't fight, some things aren't worth the fight, but maybe the 115th nag about the same issue will get through, and that will be worth something. Progress has been made and will continue to be made, in big spurts and small.

slubadub · 10/11/2011 22:37

And thanks, Trills!

LeninGrad · 10/11/2011 22:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/11/2011 23:38

'Fortunately, I grew up in a house of three brothers who are all feminists and a husband who is as affronted as me at my being disregarded for my opinions simply for being a woman.'

See, this for me highlights one of the really big, important things I think gets overlooked (not on MN but in general): how much support men can and do give to feminism. In the end it is good for all of us and I like thinking that there's a big crowd of partners and family who're just behind what people post in this section. It's a really cheering thought, especially when someone in RL trots out that tired 'oh I thought feminists didn't like men' thing.

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GeekLove · 10/11/2011 23:43

I have had the epiphany that feminism liberates men too. In patrical societies the more extreme practitioners seem so joyless. I think that in dehumanising women they dehumanise themselves but don't realise it. They know something is wrong so do the usual insane thing of repeating what is done before in the hope that the result is different.
With feminism men can share their burdens and think of relationships as having someone who can share in everything. Men can see as much of their children and do as much of their care and no-one will bitch at them for damaging their career.
What is certain is that for as long as there is anywhere in this world where women are kept in servitude it will give others justification to do the same with the excuse that 'it isn't as bad as in country X'.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/11/2011 23:43

Lenin I would like to see that thread. Smile

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epicfail · 11/11/2011 06:45

Thanks ComradeJing

I am one of those you mentioned earlier - reading the threads and nodding.
Smile

StewieGriffinsMom · 11/11/2011 07:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

4sure · 18/11/2011 00:07

I am all for the Rights of Women but and I know that this will no doubt annoy some ladies but the word 'feminism' inregards to the title for the defending of Womens Rights does not bode well with me and never has as the word itself does not impress me as a strong enough overall representative naming title.

Although the word 'suffrage': right of voting as used by the 'Suffragette's came across as a much stronger representation of the power of the group under their gender of being female and they certainly did fight and challenge in a way far more stronger than any majority of women that have followed after in this country.

Inregards to equality within the work place. No women still do not have that!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/11/2011 00:19

4sure, what would you call it if not feminism, then? I'd not thought about it before, but I think it is a pretty strong word. I suppose that's partly the associations it now has for me, which are good. Smile

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