What Does Being a Feminist in 2011 Mean To You?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I know this has been done before but I think it's nice to do it again.

I'd like one or two comments on what feminism means to you, or what you feel is a particularly important feminist issue to you right now, in 2011. I'll get the ball rolling because if memory serves, this was the conclusion of the last discussion like this:

• Do you believe men and women deserve to be treated equally?
• Do you think think this is happening yet?

If the answers are 'yes' and 'no!'', then collect your feminism stamp on the way in, and let's hear you ....

Add message | Report | Message poster ComradeJing Wed 09-Nov-11 14:17:47
Yes LRD. Feminism does benefit men/society. For example an important part of feminism IMO is joint parenting instead of a women doing all the childcare. This allows men to have better and closer relationships with their children. Or equal work opportunities mean that the best person is promoted for a job which makes the business more profitable.

That is about the most intelligent post on this thread and the only one that addresses a real inequality issue.

Hmm. I think a lot of the posts address inquality issues to be honest!

I do agree that getting men to take responsibility is hugely important and it is easy to feel as if it's the only issue (sometimes reading AIBU really feels like that). But there are increasing numbers of men who do get this and do work towards finding the best way to parent with their partners.

I think the thread about children's birthday parties and the separating of 2wo-year-old little boys from little girls really hit home to me how much feminism is needed, and IIRC we were saying how much that sort of separation damages boys as well as girls.

Which is why IMO being a parent is one of the biggest bits of feminist activism anyone can do.

It?s not always about getting men to take responsibility and I don?t think that is exactly what comradejing said. Are you a parent yourself? You don?t become one as part of activism. That would be horrible for children.

Actually ... this is making me think how my neat formula in the OP really isn't as good as what proles says (though I reckon still sometimes useful).

I want to come back to you Dearg by saying 'what about rape? What about abortion?' but in both of those cases it's not equality we're looking for really. Yes, it would be fantastic if women's bodies were automatically accorded the same respect as men's, but it's not really helpful thinking about 'equality' in these situations - it really does need to be liberation.

It?s not always about getting men to take responsibility and I don?t think that is exactly what comradejing said. Are you a parent yourself? You don?t become one as part of activism. That would be horrible for children.

Sorry, cross-post.

I agree it's not always about getting men to take responsibility. Forgive me, I thought from the tone of your post that that was what you were getting at. You sounded down.

I think I didn't explain what I meant about parenting being activism well enough. I don't mean you become a parent in order to do activism. I mean just the act of being a parent, is in itself a huge thing. I've heard people talk as if not going on marches or not writing to your MP all the time, means your not an activist. But to me, the way people on here describe how they bring up their children - that is activism. Bringing up a child to know he or she deserves to be treated fairly no matter what gender he or she is - that's a huge thing.

And no, I don't have children. Hence my great respect for the people here who do.

LRDtheFeministDragon Wed 09-Nov-11 20:18:17

You can?t be truly liberated while you attach an ideological label to yourself. That is just defining yourself in terms of an inherited code of ethics or morals to which you will adhere to remain a part of that particular herd. True liberation would probably be terrifying for most people. That is why religions and ?isms? have always thrived.
And it?s my turn to do the bath and bedtime story so I?m off.

Dearg - sorry, I don't follow your last post very well. When you're back, can you explain it a bit more simply? It sounds like you've got a faulty premise there to me - you're saying I can't be liberated while using an ideological label, but I think maybe what is missing is that I am writing that label. It's hard to be 'defined by' something you're defining for yourself ... that would be circular logic.

That's how it seems to me, anyhow.

SGM - great quotation!

'You can?t be truly liberated while you attach an ideological label to yourself. That is just defining yourself in terms of an inherited code of ethics or morals to which you will adhere to remain a part of that particular herd. True liberation would probably be terrifying for most people. That is why religions and ?isms? have always thrived.'

The more I think about this, the less I get it. What is it about ideology that precludes liberation? What if your ideology is simply to aim for liberation (which is I think what proles is saying)? Surely then it would be a contradiction in terms to say your ideology stopped you from becoming liberated.

I can understand why people get nervous about 'isms', and religions, and 'inherited codes of ethics'. It is probably true that anything with a long history necessarily has its roots in patriarchial culture, so it may be it needs modifying.

But with feminism, this is why I think it has to be a living, evolving ideology. I don't think there's much to 'inherit' really - you can verify everything you need to by looking at the state of the world and reacting accorddingly.

Deargdoom - what does being a feminist in 2011 mean to you?

Not sure if you've stumbled on this thread by mistake? It's asking feminists to explain what being a feminist means to them.

Of course we are indeed a board about feminism so I'm not saying we can't debate feminism on this board but please could I respectfully ask that you start your own thread if this is what you want to do?

IMO a hugely important part of feminism is listening to the direct testimony of other women. I'm really enjoying reading what other posters have said about what being a feminist in 2011 means to them.

Great thread LRD.

Definitely 'YES' to the first and 'NO' to the second.

I like the idea of feminism as an evolving ideology. One thing that heartens me is seeing so many younger women rejecting the culture of objectification that has developed (or maybe just become more pronounced).

And what sunshineandbooks said about DV and sexual violence. That is such a huge, big, enormous deal.

This board has played a huge part in me re-discovering feminism.

It was fantastic to find this group of like-minded,fiercely intelligent women.

I'm ok with people taking issue with my OP - proles has and I think it was productive and right.

I don't mean to suggest another thread to discusss more theoretical stuff wouldn't be a good idea though. Always interesting.

Yes and No.

My feminist focus at the moment is male violence against women and children. Male violence, period, is a problem and I wish they'd pack it in generally, but I am particuarly angry about it being directed towards women and children. In fact, I think that if actual or threatened male violence were to stop as of now, equality could probably be achieved within a couple of years.

flippin - me too! This board is great - and it is the place that made me realize feminism isn't some static set of rules. It's praxis rather than dogma.

Ayeda - That is so important, isn't it? That violence against children is so often a hugely feminist issue. And especially DV, of course.

I find your last statement very inspirational - I hope you're right!

Oh, and soooo what Helvetica said. Consciousness-raising is a massive part of my feminism, although on a pretty small scale. And Overton-window shifting - I am so grateful to whichever poster talked about that. I do that a lot now.

'I also think that it's easier to recognise sexism and the perpetuation of rigid gender roles etc when it's not you or your cultural group who's doing it. It's much easier to criticise fgm in North Africa than labiaplasty here, but they're just as bad as each other.'

So true!

Sorry, I am cutting-and-pasting a lot but I just needed to repeat that to myself really.

That also made me think what Ayann Hirsi Ali says, isn't it? - that sometimes the only respectful response to a cultural practice is not to say 'ooh, that culture is different, I must respect it', it's to say 'no, that is wrong'.

SGM - aww, that is fantastic news about the appeal!

Yes, Kay Banyard talks about cultural issues in the Equality Illusion and how Western practices (like labioplasty, Page 3 etc) are just as cultural as FGM.

Is there a thread/link where I can read about the Overton window? I've heard the term a couple of times but don't know what it is.

And it would be all appropriate to explain on a thread like this ... it wouldn't at all be me being too lazy to google ...

Oh, right. It would.

overton window

It means moving the window in which discussions happen. You mention something that sounds really out there, but by merely bringing it up you are turning it into a possible subject for discussion, so it gets discussed a lot and becomes mainstream, and the edge of the window moves so ideas that are even further out there start to creep in.

Oh, I like that. Very simple but very clever. Thanks for explaining elderberry.