Wellbeing Thread - who's in?

[AnonWasAWoman]

This is a sort of ?gap in the market? thread really, forgive the rotten title. I was thinking about women and wellbeing and a possible feminist slant on what I feel the beauty industry has colonised.

If I try to find a threads, or a magazine articles, about women?s wellbeing and health I can guarantee half of them will be written in what comes across to me as doublethink: ?you need to feel good about your body, so first you must wage war upon it for a woman?s body is naturally hideously ugly!?. This just makes me sad. So do diluted versions ? the kind of discussions or groups where participants begin with a focus on health, but gradually shift to ?what can you do to look good?, which ? well, just makes me feel ugly if I don?t do those things (And, ah, angry that some people think women should have to!).

It really worries me how, as women, health and beauty are constantly conflated, and there?s an ever-increasing list of treatments that begin as luxurious pampering, then quickly come to be essential ?maintenance? or even basic ?hygiene?. It?s taken that a sign of healthy self-confidence and body confidence is to buy into these ideas about what to do with our time and money and bodies. I?m sure there?s a spectrum of views among feminists as to what we feel is right for us and what?s not, and I don?t want to get into that because I think it?s the least interesting bit of the debate. So I?m not trying to start yet another ?do you wax your fanjo fur? thread ? interesting as they are ?!

I am sure there is a way to resist gendered body care/products without in any way denigrating or ignoring the female body. I bet some of you are brilliant at this and the Resisting Femininity threads were great for showing me the way. But I also want to replace the things I?m resisting, not just get rid of all focus on my body. My mum can as close as can be to this ? everything ?gendered? for women?s bodies, from women?s anti-perspirant, to shaving equipment, to perfume and cosmetics, came under the same heading of ?disgusting things?. In retrospect I find this quite disturbing and not remotely feminist. I am sure I would have been a happier and better-adjusted teenager if I?d not had to sneak off to buy deodorant and nick my dad?s used disposables (I didn?t know any better). If as an adult woman I want to do without any of this stuff, that?s fine ? but I certainly don?t want to feel it?s the only option, or that being a feminist has to mean focusing on the mind and forgetting about the body.

So what I would like to do is to try to hammer out a sense of what you do (if anything) to replace or contrast with what we?re offered by society in terms of caring for your body. So I thought maybe it?d be nice to have a sort of wellbeing thread on here, where we can do all the healthy stuff you hope for on a ?diet? thread (and don?t IME get), and we can do all the ?taking time for myself? stuff that the beauty industry has colonised and distorted, but we can also maybe chat about how to feel better about our bodies, instead of how to make them look better.

So, here?s my list (some, obviously, drawn from a certain S&B thread!). They?re what I?ll hope to do, not what I promise to do!

• I?m going to try to go for a walk at least twice a week, even if it?s just half an hour. And I?m going to take my camera so I don?t end up thinking about work the whole time!
• I?m going to try to eat two different kinds of fruit/veg (I get stuck on apples galore)
• I?ll try to cut my coffee intake
• I?ll try to take 15 minutes before I go to bed to think about something that is not work, or chatting on MN (!), or planning food shopping or whatever
• I?m going to try to make proper breakfast every day
• Go to bed early one night per week
• Ration my (awful) snickers habit! I have eaten three snickers ice-cream bars this morning and it is Not good.
• (You can laugh here) I?m going to do some pelvic floor exercises every week ? I always forget and I imagine I?ll be glad of them later on!

Please add in suggestions if you have them or say if you think I ought to change my mind about any of these.

Hello - mind if I join?

I do need to take some steps to feel healthier, but they are going to be small ones at first as to be honest I am at the bottom of what was a very slippery slope.

1. I will eat a piece of fruit every day.
2. I will go for a walk twice a week.
3. I will swap my cappuccino and sugar with chocolate on the top for a cup of tea as I don't have sugar in tea.

I think I can manage that, so lets see how it goes!

Hi babyheave.

Your steps are pretty similar to mine then - I'm not walking every day but I'm also switching from coffee to tea and trying to get more fruit and veg.

It is now ten days since I started this thread (yay!), and I haven't done as much walking as I meant to. I blame November. But I have cut out coffee and I'm feeling so, so much less bloated and headachy. I'm not sure if I have actually lost weight but my clothes feel looser, and I've not been eating masses of gingerbread and icecream and so on, so it must be the coffee was really not good for me.

Now need to focus on:

• Getting those walks in!
• Fruit and veg
• Watching sugar overload
• My 15 minutes wind-down before bed
• Going to bed early one night a week

I am now off on an outdoorsy long weekend with DH and his mates (eek! Not my natural habitat so send me some good vibes please!).

Hope all is going well with everyone ...onwards and upwards.

have fun LRD! I spent last night having a 'music jam' session with total strangers (meetup.com, you are brilliant) in the Ukelele, which I am trying to learn (self- taught!). It was all quite a long way out of my comfort zone, and yet it was all SO much fun, singing along to "hey Jude" and mangling the chords happily. I felt great after it.
It made me realise that I don't give myself enough time for a hobby- and now I'm going to give it more time, and give myself permission to do something that is not 'improving' or 'work-useful' or 'good to know cos of DS' - it's just something I like doing. (and, helpfully, isn't watching telly or eating chocolate!)

Thanks! I'm sure I will.

That jam session sounds fantastic! I have a mate who has just formed a group who play mandolin and ukelele - he's Spanish so they sing Spanish songs, mixed in with 'We will rock you'. Bizarre but fun! We went along to one of their sessions and it was great. I love it when people can be unselfconscious about music - I can't, I know I'm tone-deaf and can't forget it (nor can anyone listening).

The hobby thing is important, isn't it? It's like the point about dressing the children but not concentrating so much on yourself, maybe.

I just remembered the other thing I need to focus on - someone else mentioned taking time to study a language, and I've been needing a kick up the arse to get down to learning Russian so I can talk to my MIL. I have now bought CDs and done the first 'lesson'. I just need to keep it up. I know it will make me feel so much more confident if I can manage a bit.

A friend was saying that (as she has slightly older DCs) the most important thing she's found was she had to STOP herself framing her choices in the context of her children. Eg: I work, but it's better for DCs cos they love nursery. Or, I am going to play badminton twice a week and it's good for the DCs that I have a hobby because it makes me a better mother.

She said, I have to remind myself that it's not only important because it makes me a better mother. It's important that it makes me feel good, makes me a better person. Because I deserve things for me, not things for me so I can look after other people.

I only heard it this weekend, but it's stuck with me. I know I rationalise a lot of my choices with "well it will be better for DS". THat might be true, but that's NOT what legitimizes my choice. What legitimizes my choice is that I'm an adult who gets to make choices, and a person whose life matters.

That makes a lot of sense.

I don't have children, and something that I find peculiar is the attitude of people who either know I want them or assume I want them: I got a load of comments from mum/MIL/family members about how I mustn't drink too much coffee 'just in case' or I must take care to watch my weight because pregnancy is harder if you're overweight, or whatever ... and there isn't even the prospect of a baby yet! It's like a parallel world.

Just thought I'd drop in on this thread, as I actually managed to achieve my goal for the week of doing more 'activities' with DS! Maybe everyone on this thread has a different definition of 'wellbeing'. I think what I would like isn't really anything to do with physical health or pampering - I just want to somehow manage my life and my expectations so that I feel that what I am doing is what I ought to be doing at that point in time.

I think if I can do that I would live more in the moment and get rid of a lot of the constant underlying 'what am I doing with my life' stress.

Comrade just to clarify - dh has little interest in how tidy the house is other than at a very basic level! I can be quite happy slobbing out for a weekend with the debris of family living all over the place, but I do get a sense of calm from nicely organised, ordered things. Like having all my clothes neatly folded in the drawers (which doesn't happen often) or the bookshelves being straight. All my beads and things are sorted into colour order :). I freely admit to having Monica tendencies :).

I have to add eating more fruit to my list. I have a tendency to "leave it for the children".

my children leave it to rot and i have to make banana bread...

At least you make bananabread.

I just throw it in the compost.

i would kill for monica tendencies. i am a complete slob.

Girders sorry, I wasn't having a go or suggesting your DH was a pain. More musing out loud at you saying being tidy was controversial.

Mad :o Yes, being able to do up your trousers is good too.

I've still done nothing on my list but I've been having a good think about things and how I want to move forward so hopefully I can get on task soon.

Oohh, banana bread, Is there any left ?

Enjoyed your musings blackcurrant WRT being able to make choices for our own benefit, and not just as it affects the DC's.

I haven't actually done much yet either ComradeJing - though I did go to a good free hours training at our local Women's Centre yesterday to understand computers better, and break through the bits where I've got a bit stuck. Skype sounds very promising, and could help us keep in touch better with family and friends. Anyone use it ?

Anyhow, like you Comrade I'm having good thoughts
Swimming next week ?
You're right LRD November is a bit of a challenge - as well as a good excuse !

heh, some days are more wellbeing-y than others for me, too - last night, for example, I watched Glee and drank spiced hot chocolate and it was pretty much the perfect end to the week - mind you, this morning is frosty and beautiful and I'm really looking forward to my dog walk.

I just want to avoid the chore-like stuff. I'm not going to do 'oh, i should go the gym' and things, cos I never do and it just makes me feel like shit. Whereas if I join the local yoga place I will feel GOOD about it and good after classes and actually go, and then I'll feel good about going, and momentum will build!

I'm not beating myself up about this, the point is nurturing, not yet-another-thing I'm not good enough for!
So this morning, tea, DS laughing at Elmo and giving me (snotty) cuddles, and yeah - that's pretty blissful too!

Sounds like there's lots of good stuff in there blackcurrants - the frosty walks, spiced hot chocolate , yoga class, and snotty cuddles from DS all sound great ! Sometimes I think the DC's are a very happy bonus if anyone knows what I mean ?

agree blackcurrants - it's basically justifying any pleasure or time you may have by having thought of how it's good for the children in some way. it doesn't need justifying via the children - we're allowed to do stuff because we enjoy it or it's good for us without apologising and justifying ourselves.

my dog is my compost heap. i no longer feel so bad about ds taking a pear and only eating what i'd consider a quarter of it before giving up because the dog eats the rest along with apple cores, bruised bananas and just about anything really

i've been doing the oil cleansing for a few days now. i like it but can't say i notice any difference to my skin really but maybe that's because i didn't use soaps or scrubs or anything chemical generally anyway? or maybe i wait for the miraculous beautifying effects that are about to happen?

we've had a hectic busy few days including the fem11 conference and subsequent early start/late night and train journeys so my well being plan today is to let us have a chilled day around the house and a nice walk at some point in the afternoon. except i've just realised there's not clean uniform - grr. better get on it

Is anybody else a bit concerned that people are talking about skincare, clothes and weight loss in the feminist topic, completely uncritically?

There are obviously other things in here too, but it's worrying to see those being injected in without any feminist analysis.

I know people like these things and I'm not criticisng them for that (I used to, bar the weight loss thing) but there is a Style and Beauty topic if people want to talk about losing weight or what will make them look "good" (beauty is a patriarchal standard after all).

If this is a feminist wellbeing thread then the patriarchal stuff has to go, otherwise it's just reinforcing it, not offering any challenge to it at all.

So what bits do you think are the patriarchal stuff thunderbolts?

I think it's always difficult to sort out what you're doing for yourself, and what you're doing to meet some kind of culturally constructed beauty standard.

Actually scrap that, I suspect that every human interpretation of "looking good" is culturally constructed. Although apparently there are certain things which are universal - a symmetrical face and body is generally considered the beauty norm (for both men and women) across all cultures. But apart from that, everything else is up for cultural grabs.

I disagree thunders, I don't have any problem with wanting to look well,(even if the standards are patriarchal,) because

• it's only a minor subset of overall self care, in proper proportion to all the other facets of ourselves, which it is on this thread, imo.
• the thread is about self care and nurturing, which means doing what you want to do rather than should, iyswim, there are times for fighting the patriarchy and nurturing time is not it.
• there are loads of feminist discussions about the beauty standard which most posters are aware of, so it's not necessary about critiqing it here and now, I think most posters are aware of the context already.
• I see the weight loss talk etc as more of a happy side effect of taking more exercise which is enjoyable, yoga & gog walking for etc, rather than the point of it.

Gog walking, of course everyone loves that dog obv.

I do accept that the beauty standard thing is problematic - but I kind of like the colours thing for eg, it's about bending fashion to suit YOU rather than the other way round. I get you are still accepting the notion of fashion beauty etc but it's not the toxic version which imposes one standard for all, and it's more about bringing out the beauty of the face, which is possible for all ANd is our most individual physical feature, rather than castigating the body for not being 19 and perky.

Hi thunderbolt and friends,

Is anybody else a bit concerned ...

Well, a bit concerned about the weight loss issues - I just think that's a very tricky issue. So hard for people to talk about solely in terms of health and personal well-being.

We seem to be so conditioned to look good in various ways for other people's benefit don't we ?

That's why I think this is such a good and interesting thread. Not without it's challenges though !

If anyone can decipher those garblings fair play to you. v badly put, am singing and dancing to nursery rhymes as well at the mo

I think there are 2 types of looking good.

The media driven one which we are all supposed to aspire to but never will. It's a caricature of the real life one, which is the one we compliment our nearest and dearest on. That's health driven - ok, and youth driven - not so ok,imo, so means clear skin, shiny hair, fit and toned looking, which doesn't exclude being overweight and does not equal thin.

The bits I listed I thought were patriarchal Eleanor:

"skincare, clothes and weight loss"

Women being concerned with how we look and spending time and energy on it is what the patriarchy wants. Women not thinking we are good enough, in whatever way, and always being on a self-improvement jag is another.

I thought this thread might be an ironic take on the Project Princess stuff going on in Style and Beauty but in fact some of it sounds exactly the same as what they are doing over there.

Once again I"m not criticising anybody for taking part in these things, that's up to them, what I do find difficult as seeing this promoted as if it's coming from some kind of feminist angle when at least some of it isn't. The feminine corvee is real, women have to undertake it, it's not something we should aspire to though.

Juggling, the weight loss thing on this thread seems to be viewed as an uncritical good. Something like 40% of British women are on diets at any one time, most women hate their bodies. In my view that's the real issue, not what size anybody is.

This was the Project Princess thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/1156122-Project-Princess/AllOnOnePage

They were also making lists of things to do to make themselves "better":

. 8 glasses of water a day

1. Exfoliate
2. Use teeth whitener
3. Use anti-aging face cream
4. Intensive nail care (feet and hands)
5. Use eyelash growth serum OR eye cream.
6. The Shred / other intensive exercise
7. At least 2 extra fruit & veg
8. Healthy breakfast daily

10. Hair oil (moroccan hair oil for eg, or kerastase etc) 11. No alcohol during the week 12. Daily vitamins 13. Body brushing 14. At least 2 servings of salmon or other fatty fish per week. 15. One early night once a week. Suggest 9PM. 16. Regular hair removal 17. Give up one naughty favourite item e.g. chocolate/crisps 18. No more fizzy drinks 19. DAILY body moisturising 20. Warm water with lemon first thing in the a.m.