Wellbeing Thread - who's in?

[AnonWasAWoman]

This is a sort of ?gap in the market? thread really, forgive the rotten title. I was thinking about women and wellbeing and a possible feminist slant on what I feel the beauty industry has colonised.

If I try to find a threads, or a magazine articles, about women?s wellbeing and health I can guarantee half of them will be written in what comes across to me as doublethink: ?you need to feel good about your body, so first you must wage war upon it for a woman?s body is naturally hideously ugly!?. This just makes me sad. So do diluted versions ? the kind of discussions or groups where participants begin with a focus on health, but gradually shift to ?what can you do to look good?, which ? well, just makes me feel ugly if I don?t do those things (And, ah, angry that some people think women should have to!).

It really worries me how, as women, health and beauty are constantly conflated, and there?s an ever-increasing list of treatments that begin as luxurious pampering, then quickly come to be essential ?maintenance? or even basic ?hygiene?. It?s taken that a sign of healthy self-confidence and body confidence is to buy into these ideas about what to do with our time and money and bodies. I?m sure there?s a spectrum of views among feminists as to what we feel is right for us and what?s not, and I don?t want to get into that because I think it?s the least interesting bit of the debate. So I?m not trying to start yet another ?do you wax your fanjo fur? thread ? interesting as they are ?!

I am sure there is a way to resist gendered body care/products without in any way denigrating or ignoring the female body. I bet some of you are brilliant at this and the Resisting Femininity threads were great for showing me the way. But I also want to replace the things I?m resisting, not just get rid of all focus on my body. My mum can as close as can be to this ? everything ?gendered? for women?s bodies, from women?s anti-perspirant, to shaving equipment, to perfume and cosmetics, came under the same heading of ?disgusting things?. In retrospect I find this quite disturbing and not remotely feminist. I am sure I would have been a happier and better-adjusted teenager if I?d not had to sneak off to buy deodorant and nick my dad?s used disposables (I didn?t know any better). If as an adult woman I want to do without any of this stuff, that?s fine ? but I certainly don?t want to feel it?s the only option, or that being a feminist has to mean focusing on the mind and forgetting about the body.

So what I would like to do is to try to hammer out a sense of what you do (if anything) to replace or contrast with what we?re offered by society in terms of caring for your body. So I thought maybe it?d be nice to have a sort of wellbeing thread on here, where we can do all the healthy stuff you hope for on a ?diet? thread (and don?t IME get), and we can do all the ?taking time for myself? stuff that the beauty industry has colonised and distorted, but we can also maybe chat about how to feel better about our bodies, instead of how to make them look better.

So, here?s my list (some, obviously, drawn from a certain S&B thread!). They?re what I?ll hope to do, not what I promise to do!

• I?m going to try to go for a walk at least twice a week, even if it?s just half an hour. And I?m going to take my camera so I don?t end up thinking about work the whole time!
• I?m going to try to eat two different kinds of fruit/veg (I get stuck on apples galore)
• I?ll try to cut my coffee intake
• I?ll try to take 15 minutes before I go to bed to think about something that is not work, or chatting on MN (!), or planning food shopping or whatever
• I?m going to try to make proper breakfast every day
• Go to bed early one night per week
• Ration my (awful) snickers habit! I have eaten three snickers ice-cream bars this morning and it is Not good.
• (You can laugh here) I?m going to do some pelvic floor exercises every week ? I always forget and I imagine I?ll be glad of them later on!

Please add in suggestions if you have them or say if you think I ought to change my mind about any of these.

crikey. i don't think there is an age that i could cope with 4 under 3!

I will blame this thread if DH has to suffer another round of 'but please can we have a baby at this totally impractical time?'.

I do like male and female nudes in art but I agree about naked real servers being really off-putting. Apart from anything else I know a painting isn't going to drop stray chest-hair in my coffee! I think personally, I don't like anything that looks exposed because you sort of know how it feels, which isn't nice. But being nude also reminds you of just lying around being unconcerned about your body, so sometimes it makes you feel less body-conscious.

I also find it amusing/awful that when my mate was teaching Modigliani, she had to explain why the women are painted with pubic hair ... some of her students assumed it was 'normal' in art to remove it. But she thinks it was quite good for them to see nudes that weren't porn-style naked.

saf - I'm so glad you slept better!

That girl sounds like some of my schoolfriends. I remember hearing that a girl I went to primary school with got married at 17. She's still with him and people always say they seem very happy. I can't quite get my mind around it. I suppose the thing that scares me is I know how useless I would have been at setting up any kind of equal relationship at 17. Doesn't necessarily mean she is, I know.

I cross posted and now need to make a face at 4 under 3! I knew a woman who had 3 children 10 months apart and I thought that was hectic enough.

perhaps he'd have been clueless about it too and both of them a bit clueless of how they were meant to do it so they will have muddled through on their own terms and found ways and a relationship that generally works for them rather than grappling with expectations though lrd. pros and cons to all i suppose.

the thing is as well that maybe she'll have this really rich and vibrant life and career bloom in ten years time when she'll be younger than i am now with children much older and not needing her much and not having to worry about houses/money etc because they've been established for a long time etc whereas i'll be nearing fifty with a teenager.

i like to think that it's just different timing for some people and they go on to have their youth years later. when i used to teach scuba overseas i'd sometimes have much older people come on courses like a couple whose children had grown up and they'd realised they didn't want to be stuck where they were anymore so they totally changed their lives and decided it was time for them now and were travelling around the world together really heart warming.

You're right, there are lots of positives to look at.

FWIW, when DH and I got married his parents were saying 'oh, they're so old, isn't it wonderful they've finally found each other, she will want to start having babies right away!' because to them I was quite an old bride at 25. Lots of other people told us we were too young (especially DH who was 23). It does vary a lot from culture to culture what people think.

I suppose what is worrying is that I believe psychologists have observed that women (and men, maybe, I don't know?) who had difficult childhoods often want to start families earlier, seeing it as a sign and source of security. I can understand that. But it must also make some people vulnerable. I hope that doesn't come across as judgmental - but I do think it is a bit worrying how some girls get this strong message that the best thing they can do to show they're grown up, is to have a baby. I wish we could make it easier for women to have babies in their own time (and especially I wish it weren't stigmatized to have babies at university), but at the moment it's obviously not very easy. A mate of mine was 23 when she had her (very much planned and wanted) first and still got some very rude comments from her GP.

Sorry, I'm digressing hugely ... not thinking very clearly today.

i agree but you do have to keep an open mind to the fact that for some women in their own time might mean young and they might know what they're doing and what will make them happier.

it used to be assumed we had to be married/have babies young to be happy/ok/successful which was tough on those that wasn't right for. i wouldn't like it to go to the other extreme where you have to be older, wealthier, mroe educated and have been to x amount of continents before you have children/get married or you're wrong.

i recognise the phenomena of must have a baby to be happy and make up for the past/get secure/be safe etc and yes i agree that's sad and worrying and problematic. some people just are 'older' in that sense though and it's what they want and need or it happens and they genuinely make the best of it and enjoy it despite it wouldn't necessary have been the way they planned it.

i sound very fency

Oh, sure, I agree the right time for some people is young. I wish it were easier to have babies younger.

We both sound fence-y, but it's hard not to see the bad and good sides of whatever people do.

(I'm pretending this has staved off the broodiness, btw. ).

at least it's not screaming at you yet then. the broodiness i mean.

It kind of is. It's daft - I've got a baby niece and I am so thrilled, and my brother sends me lots of lovely videos and pictures of her (we can't get to see them as they're overseas and we can't afford the flights, but they'll be back in the UK early next year). And I want to be just excited and thrilled but TBH I find the videos really hard to watch. Sorry, being daft here.

I think the best thing for me to do at the moment is just be aware I can learn and plan, and I'm sure it will stand me in good stead for later on. In practical terms this thread is good for making me think how to take some time for me and work on the stuff that makes me feel good, instead of wishing it away - because I don't want to do what comradejing mentioned her friend doing (and what I've seen people do), where they get so broody it's hard for them to acknowledge that having a baby is hard work and not just unvaryingly wonderful.

Oops, that was both self-indulgent and a bit depressing.

On a more positive note, I have finally done what I've never done before, and read a whole serious feminism book from cover to cover (it's Jeffries' Beauty and Misogyny), and it was great. So much less difficult than I was expecting, too - I mean it was thought provoking and I didn't understand it all, but I did feel as if I wasn't completely in the dark. It was really, really interesting and uplifting and definitely good for making links in my mind between the sort of anxieties I had when I started reading the Resisting Femininity threads and the sort of gaps in my life I could feel when I started this one.

It's brilliant, I really recommendin it to anyone who's not read it.

LRD I don't think that self-indulgent or depressing. I thought it was very thoughtful. None of your feelings about your niece are daft and I think the world would be a much better place for thinking and planning before having children.

Actually as part of our wellbeing thread - and thank you LRD for starting it, probably my favourite MN thread ever- I think we should ban apologising for our posts. We should be able to discuss sex or nudity or anger or desires or whatever without worrying about how our posts are taken or that we might upset the thread or bring it down or whatever. It's not very wellbeingy if we need to bottle our emotions up. What are your thoughts? :)

I should add that my friend with 4 under 3 had twins and then must have fallen pregnant within 3 months of each birth. She is also a mormon with a blog and everything.

Oh and I'll put the book on my Christmas list. Thanks :)

Thank you, that is very kind. I am dead chuffed you like this thread, I didn't know how it would go.

I do agree with you about apologizing - it is something I get evangelical about when I am teaching actually, because it really is mostly women who begin responses with 'sorry, I'm probably wrong but ...' and it is, as you say, not great. I think (to steal terminology for Jeffries), that it's a trope we use to show we're properly deferent women. Annoyingly it is rewarded by listeners a lot of the time - we get taught that it is emotionally intelligent to be constantly prefacing what you say by acknowledging how partial and insignificant your view is. But I think cumulatively it can be pretty unemotionally healthy for the speaker!

I didn't think what you wrote sounded wanky at all, btw.

Btw ... I wish i could remember where on earth this is from, but there's a scene I remember in a book, where this woman realizes that no-one has ever asked her what her thoughts are. For me it connects to all the stuff about women, especially women who don't work outside the home or who don't comform to social ideals of beauty or whatever, being made invisible/silenced. Imagine never being asked what you think.

i', just reading 'out of my mind' because dd1 lent it to me - it's about a girl with cp and complex needs who has no voice until she gets a computer for speech at 11. not quite the same thing, but it just echoed a bit, as it deals with that sort of invisibility. it's a young person's read really (and i susoect the ending is going to be super-cheesy) but does touch on having a lifetime's worth of thoughts and words and never sharing any of them. obv it's based around disability rather than gender, but the idea is similar, i think.

i try really hard not to do the apology before i state my opinion thing, now. it is so difficult though. v ingrained that that's how negotiations are made. it does seem to be much more prevalent with women, but there's a lot of interesting stuff about interactions and different roles and negotiating styles/ leadership etc. heaven forbid i might appear competent.

it is beautiful here today. the clouds have lifted and the sun is shining on fresh snow on the mountains.

where are you madwoman?

oh, in the rockies. canada. tis very lovely. starting to snow now though, so i suspect my beautiful view is about to disappear again.

i've said i'll cook for all the kids and my sister on sunday and i'm a bit stressed. have a load of casserole beef in the freezer and a slow cooker so thinking something involving those and some ale and a lot of cheesy mash might cover it.

i love having people around here and doing my bit and it's good for me and ds but i get quite flustered about cooking good enough food and what if it's inedible etc. i always feel good about it afterwards though so have pushed myself to say i'll do it. it also kicks my bum to tidy up having people round as it's for a reason - making it nice for guests rather than drudgery itms.

this is all a bit random to post here but i'm under strict instructions not to apologise so will resist doing so and post

got a bit of place envy now madwoman (xposted). i flew into vancouver once and my friend collected and drove me north to nelson (through a lot of mountain passes) and i spent a few weeks out that way before returning. most beautiful part of the world

it is. sometimes i can't believe how lucky we are, but it's taken the best part of ten years to actually get here, so not all luck, lol.

i'm the same way about entertaining. fortunately dh doesn't care and will happily feed the five thousand. he loves to plan a big meal and get on with it, so i end up flapping around the edges. we can't both be in the kitchen at the same time - i'm a compulsive stirrer and it makes him crazy. battle of the egos.

i think jacksmania might be that side, we're alberta side, not bc. i think there are a few mners dotted around in obscure places over here!

fresh bread is baking, steak and stout casserole is cooling in the barn ready to be heated up again for extra flavour and the house is starting to look fairly presentable-ish i love these little bursts of domesticity - i feel like a kid whose raided the dressing up box and is trying out some other personality i dream of having a big farmhouse with a huge table and a fire with armchairs in it and small children and animals running to and fro looking ragged but wholesome.

it doesn't last long usually mind!

hope everyone is having a nice weekend and doing things that making them feel good. i got out yesterday despite feeling very tired and bleurgh and took the boy to softplay and bumped into a lovely mum from school who was there and had a really relaxed nice chat with her which was nice. today i'll get the feel good factor from filling hungry tummies and giving my sister a break from the hecticness of doing it all for three teens whilst working and having all the other commitments she gets herself buried in.

then it's a new week tomorrow.

oh and the continuing flirtation with very hot guy is doing wonders for my feel good factor too i have to say. bit of walking around grinning moronically at text messages going on here

that should say a huge farmhouse with a kitchen with a huge table and fire and armchairs.

I've been revisiting this poem - it was our school motto along with 'fill the unforgiving minute' - and thinking it's marvellous for us even though it was written to a boy and about being a man. it is far more fitting for us i think as women and feminists and i want to reclaim it am copying the first couple of verses in for all to re-read:

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you ,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you ,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about , don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools...

please excuse the shouty bolding (if it has worked that is)

..If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a woman , my daughter !