Wellbeing Thread - who's in?

[AnonWasAWoman]

This is a sort of ?gap in the market? thread really, forgive the rotten title. I was thinking about women and wellbeing and a possible feminist slant on what I feel the beauty industry has colonised.

If I try to find a threads, or a magazine articles, about women?s wellbeing and health I can guarantee half of them will be written in what comes across to me as doublethink: ?you need to feel good about your body, so first you must wage war upon it for a woman?s body is naturally hideously ugly!?. This just makes me sad. So do diluted versions ? the kind of discussions or groups where participants begin with a focus on health, but gradually shift to ?what can you do to look good?, which ? well, just makes me feel ugly if I don?t do those things (And, ah, angry that some people think women should have to!).

It really worries me how, as women, health and beauty are constantly conflated, and there?s an ever-increasing list of treatments that begin as luxurious pampering, then quickly come to be essential ?maintenance? or even basic ?hygiene?. It?s taken that a sign of healthy self-confidence and body confidence is to buy into these ideas about what to do with our time and money and bodies. I?m sure there?s a spectrum of views among feminists as to what we feel is right for us and what?s not, and I don?t want to get into that because I think it?s the least interesting bit of the debate. So I?m not trying to start yet another ?do you wax your fanjo fur? thread ? interesting as they are ?!

I am sure there is a way to resist gendered body care/products without in any way denigrating or ignoring the female body. I bet some of you are brilliant at this and the Resisting Femininity threads were great for showing me the way. But I also want to replace the things I?m resisting, not just get rid of all focus on my body. My mum can as close as can be to this ? everything ?gendered? for women?s bodies, from women?s anti-perspirant, to shaving equipment, to perfume and cosmetics, came under the same heading of ?disgusting things?. In retrospect I find this quite disturbing and not remotely feminist. I am sure I would have been a happier and better-adjusted teenager if I?d not had to sneak off to buy deodorant and nick my dad?s used disposables (I didn?t know any better). If as an adult woman I want to do without any of this stuff, that?s fine ? but I certainly don?t want to feel it?s the only option, or that being a feminist has to mean focusing on the mind and forgetting about the body.

So what I would like to do is to try to hammer out a sense of what you do (if anything) to replace or contrast with what we?re offered by society in terms of caring for your body. So I thought maybe it?d be nice to have a sort of wellbeing thread on here, where we can do all the healthy stuff you hope for on a ?diet? thread (and don?t IME get), and we can do all the ?taking time for myself? stuff that the beauty industry has colonised and distorted, but we can also maybe chat about how to feel better about our bodies, instead of how to make them look better.

So, here?s my list (some, obviously, drawn from a certain S&B thread!). They?re what I?ll hope to do, not what I promise to do!

• I?m going to try to go for a walk at least twice a week, even if it?s just half an hour. And I?m going to take my camera so I don?t end up thinking about work the whole time!
• I?m going to try to eat two different kinds of fruit/veg (I get stuck on apples galore)
• I?ll try to cut my coffee intake
• I?ll try to take 15 minutes before I go to bed to think about something that is not work, or chatting on MN (!), or planning food shopping or whatever
• I?m going to try to make proper breakfast every day
• Go to bed early one night per week
• Ration my (awful) snickers habit! I have eaten three snickers ice-cream bars this morning and it is Not good.
• (You can laugh here) I?m going to do some pelvic floor exercises every week ? I always forget and I imagine I?ll be glad of them later on!

Please add in suggestions if you have them or say if you think I ought to change my mind about any of these.

Oh, saf, I'm so sorry you're not sleeping well - hope you get a good night tonight.

I feel I should be cheering you on with the healthy food - because there is something tiring in itself about sugar highs - but mad is right it's sometimes a good option. It was for me tonight - though I got back to find DH had got in from work with the food parcel his grandmother sent him, so we are currently eating spiced cake with apricot filling. It's good.

I feel karmic debt for reminding you to do chores - as feminist karma goes, mine is slipping! I'll think sleepy thoughts in your direction ...

Take care.

Saf sorry you're not sleeping well :( that's rotten.

You know speaking of the diet thing it is absolutely obvious that women's body shapes have changed in (urban at least) china. Meat used to be a small part of a few dishes or evens few meals but now it's common, certainly amongst the middle classes, throughout the day. Women seem to have much larger boobs and bums instead of that 'classic' very slender Chinese look with very flat bottom and small bust. Underwear shops have sprung up and my thinner but busty friends have less of a problem shopping in Chinese designed clothing stores.

Thats a huge generalization I know but I see it enough for it to be noticeable.

Took dd to the pool yesterday :) really enjoyed it.

On another note... Someone mentioned up thread they went through their underwear a while ago. It inspired me to go through my whole wardrobe yesterday :) I gave my Ayi everything that I just don't wear, put my summer stuff in the trunk and re arranged my jumpers and underwear. Ditched a LOT of old knickers and condensed everything into one draw (draw? Is that right? ) and put all my matching underwear together. Very pleased with myself.

I was completely unable to ditch some old, unfitting but very, very beautiful and expensive underwear sets though. It was like meeting old boyfriends again :o

drawer

sorry for my big whine last night!

saf - don't be daft, you weren't whining. I hope you slept better last night.

jing ... it was me with the underwear clear out. I liked the idea of you thinking of old boyfriends in a positive way (a lot of mine was chucked thinking 'ewww, this reminds me of wanker ex'. It was very pleasant to throw it away. ). But then no-one has ever bought me expensive underwear - that I've only done for myself.

Throwing away high heels would be the next logical step but I'm not quite there yet.

I used to go swimming with my mate to be a second adult for when she took her son and baby DD - it was so much fun, I don't remember babies in pools when I was little (though maybe they were there). May we have a large swimming pool at the feminist spa, please?

(Note: 'don't be daft' is intended as affectionate not snippy. This comes across better if I remembered to . Sorry!)

Just poking my head round the door to say Hi All! I haven't posted in ages but have been reading.

Hi bubble i am glad you found this thread, you have been through a lot ltely and deserve a bit of well being I hope you will find this thread good for that. Like wrapping up in a fluffy blanket on a wintry night.

Interesting what you said about red meat LRD combine that frequent pregnancies and childbirth the must have been seriously iron deficient. No wonder they were 'delicate little flowers'. Of course it was accepted for the upper classes, but peasant women were expected to be sturdy and strong.

SAF that wasn't a whine! Not s I understand them anyway.

comrade that's funny, i did a massive clear out of DD1's sleb-scale wardrobe yesterday. Decluttering feels great

Hi Sal.

hi LRD

I don't have much to add to this thread really! I've been doing what I said and getting lots of sleep. while that's great and everything it doesn't make for great conversation.

and of course obsessively following the euro crises and muddling myself up.

Baby is doing v well. She's a delight! and 9 weeks already.
Sometimes I'm literally smothered with love with my 2 kids clambering all over me.

9 Weeks! I already miss that milky, sweet and sleepy stage even though I'm having fun with this stage. Very glad she is doing well.

Saf drawer - thank you. Spelling isn't a strength of mine! It definitely didn't read like a whine.

LRD I bought almost all of the underwear myself too :) I firmly believe women should buy attractive but comfortable and supportive if you have norks like mine underwear for themselves.

Had a lovely lunch with a much loved friend and DD today.

It sounds lovely. I can never be glad enough I came across MN, without it I would have been really nervous/conflicted about wanting a baby. Not now.

So personally I find reading your posts a lovely bit of the conversation.

jing - absolutely agree. In fact I was idly wondering what 'feminist underwear' would be as I pottered around this morning - I'd add 'affordable' to your list, it stuns me how much you can pay.

I do have some purple and green striped knicks from M&S - I gues they are my suffragette pants.

Your lunch sounds nice - I'm going to Thanksgiving (ish, we're not doing turkey but we are doing pumpkin pie) dinner at my friend's house tonight and it will be good - especially since I get to meet up with a friend I've not seen for a long time, who's the only classmate I've known who tried to work with academic feminism. It should make for interesting conversation.

I'm getting really excited about Reclaim the Night this weekend - it's going to be great.

thanks all

we shall have several pools - some with hydro features and 40C water and no children and dim lights for blissing in. one for proper swimming, one for bigger children so they could splash and shriek without disturbing swimmers, babies, relaxers and one lovely warm baby and toddler pool with lots of floats and underwater coloured lights. speakers and appropriate music in each of course.

i would also like a lovely warm room with beds and duvets where when nicely relaxed you could go in your fluffy bathrobe and climb into bed for a snooze or to read.

i'm thinking despite my separatist tendencies some very beautiful male waiters/general dogs bodies should be in attendance on the condition that they do not speak and lower their eyes at all times. the mra's would love that.

saw fit boy flirt interest again today - may have been good for my wellbeing. i also went to a singing class for the second week running. i love it! you forget to do the things that bring you joy and you automatically gravitated into when at school and surrounded by opportunities. being in a room with a group of people singing, learning harmonies and parts and making a beautiful noise has been lovely. we're doing a performance in december hope we'll be ready. really glad i've joined especially because it's right at the start.

(avoids cooing as i'm trying to stave off my broodiness and avoid imaging what beautiful, curly haired, gorgeous skinned babies me and fit boy would make. shh, i never said that)

that really was a joke btw!

many a truth was spoken in jest SAF

that should've had a smiley in there- the hmm face looks a bit bitchy!

they never come out like you imagined they would, honestly. somehow, dh and i (both brown hair, mine v dark,both brown eyed) have ended up with two mousey kids and a blonde blue-eyed one. lord knows where she came from. none of them have dark hair or dark brown eyes like me (in fact we've got two blue-eyed kids and a hazel eyed one). dh is a closet ginger (he has suspicious eyebrows and chest hair) and we were slightly curious we might get a red head (his siblings are vibrant red) but nada. v odd, this genetics malarkey.

but ooo, babies. i did suggest to dh that he might like to have his vasectomy reversed, but judging by the unadulterated look of abject horror that shot across his face, it ain't ever going to happen. so, 3 it is. i have a friend who is also 40 and has been through so much wrt fertility that it just makes my heart ache. i'd be a surrogate for her in a heartbeat, but with dd2's problems you just never know. i'm a total babysnatcher though. i accost women in supermarkets with screaming babies (who look at the total end of their tether), and follow them around baby joggling so that they can finish their shop. i just so remember that awful feeling of wanting to burst into tears in the supermarket and not having enough hands.

aw, babies. and i'm actually the least maternal woman on the planet, i think!

one of my wellbeing activities this week was to dye my pants. my pants all cotton black. after a few years the dye washes out. so i redye them.

ok lucky DP gets to see me in saggy 5 yr old sensible 'panties'....(i like my system...i like systems generally....)

a friend hired a naked male waiter for a private dining hen do who was so beautiful he was breathtaking. but having a man serving you food & drinks wearing only an apron is gross on so many levels. i find some of the not objectify men stuff difficult because i dont understand what the boundry of 'ok' is, but a naked male server was wrong wrong wrong.

singing is great, i would love to join a choir sometime.

you dye your pants? that is awesome.

naked waiter

nudity is an odd thing. i actually find 'nudes' in an artistic sense really interesting, and quite often contemplate a purchase, (they don't have to be perfect, i'm not sure what the appeal is, maybe an honesty/ nothing to hide thing?) but the 'real thing' as in an actual living breathing someone, held up for objectification and delectation is something else altogether, and it makes me a bit squeamish. actually a lot squeamish. men or women. that's just too honest.

actually, i find female nudes more appealing. in fact, less than a week ago i was contemplating a naked self portrait. in the bath. in a sort of foetal position, bizarrely. and quite why this thread reminded me i have no idea. i haven't got an artistic bone in my body, but for some reason i spent a good hour wondering about the process.

why is that? someone psycho-analyse me please? is it plain old prudery? am i threatened by real naked people, but pictures or sculptures are ok?

mm, no, can't be quite right - have spent the odd period in a naked health spa place wearing nowt. it was faintly bizarre, but not threatening.

it is something about the the gaze/ invitation to gaze, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

i've spent several years avoiding that penis-art show, for example. i can't think of anything worse than spending an hour focused on a penis that looks like the taj mahal, or wahtever.

i am a prude, aren't i?

I avoided the puppetry of the penis because I thought I'd never be able to look a penis in the, erm, eye ever again without wondering if it could bend itself into the Eiffel Tower. It'd kill my sex life, too much snortling.

Ahem.

BABIES! I want another one. DS is coming out with a new word every day now, and playing the most hysterical games, and being such a little boy and not at ALL a baby, that I want another one. Must get a job first. But wow, it's got to happen (the job) this year, so I can imagine having a baby in the next eighteen months, ish.

As for nudes: mnn. Some I like. Oddly, (or perhaps not oddly!) since I became a mother I have found pictures of mothers and children incredibly moving. The lactation room (special place for pumping milk) in my work had these Mary Cassat prints that made me all 'awww' and made me want one in my house, for the first time ever. Normally I'm a landscapes/seascapes kind of person.
Anyway, that appreciation was possibly homone-induced, but people who capture just how divine children are immediately post-bath are talented artists, in my booki.

My friends mother has a beautiful nude painting of herself. It is very, very tasteful and arty. She is on her front and turned away so it could be her but it could be someone else. I would love one of myself done in a similar way.

I really think everyone should wear clothes when serving food. Blergh to just an apron.

A stealing, lying, cheating, womanizing, misogynistic arse of a man I know in Beijing was one of the original puppetry of the penis men. He 'invented' about 5 different tricks for the show and gets around 5 grand a year in royalties. You need a very large penis even flacid and the ability to get hard on demand and no shame

Saf I'm very jealous of the singing. I loved it at school. Sounds fantastic. Very wellbeingy :o

Mad bless you for accosting women in supermarkets. I still remember a lovely lady who once came and helped me as I waited for a taxi and dd was going mad as she (and I) were exhausted through lack of sleep. When the taxi driver came and wouldn't help me get my stuff in his car she gave him a right telling off whilst jiggling dd until she fell asleep. I asked her to come home with me :o

i'm surprised you ever let her leave, jing.

and how utterly utterly bizarre that you know/ knew someone who invented penis tricks. the world is such a bizarre place, it amazes me no end.

in the very small isolated village we used to live in, we had the usual smattering of women - nurses, teachers, lawyers, cooks, bankers, civil servants, nursery workers etc, but we also had a cage dancer and a russian princess. it was very jolly. book club was awesome. i do so love people.

but i have to go and google mary cassat now...

sal i'm so glad you wrote your second post to me. i was already head screwing a little over that hmm face and dithering my head about what you meant when i read you saying it should be a smiley amazing the difference those little faces can make!

at genetic mysteries madwoman and yy to babies! especially teeny ones - i worry i'll turn into one of those old aunties of the family who virtually rugby tackle each other and young mothers out of the way to get hold of the baby all long fingers grasping the infant! hmm. i've only got one - it's a bit stingy really - just the one? it's great but good lord i only got one year of baby for my whole life? i'm 36 and i think basically it's the second wave of the biological clock here.

i'm a bit like that with dogs though too. on my walk this morning this guy was in a hurry to go after his young dog had been playing with mine and he obviously has trouble getting her to come back when she knows he's going to put the lead on and i could see him struggling so i ended up staying and subtly showing him how she would come back if you got down on her level and gave her motivation. i didn't like to see him stressing and she was a lovely thing. so it's 50/50 if i turn into the mad dog lady or the baby grabber.

thereal i agree that naked is not good. who realistically would want dangly bits with their morning coffee? the objectifying naked men and standardising our sexuality to uggish slathering over objectified human beings all made to seem identical doesn't appeal. i have quirkier tastes than that and the human being bit is pretty key

the singing is lovely - go for it those who said they'd like to - feels so good to be singing again honestly. it's so nice to make really use your voice and we do lovely warm up exercises that really lift you and get you breathing nicely and feeling good. would definitely recommend it as a wellbeing exercise.

i wonder if i could manage to arrange a book club in this village? i like people too and there would be all sorts of characters. i think here i'm probably seen as the 'she's generally lovely but she seems a bit mad/weird/strange/something suspect' one. i guess i'd have been in danger if i lived in the time of the witch trials but as i get to know more of the mums and people they are mostly all a harmless and generally lovely and quirky in their own ways too and not really the potential pitch fork wielding wife-folk i might have been a tiny bit expectant of them being

i shall give that some thought. it's like when people talk about starting up feminist groups in their area, i'm very impressed with them doing it and braving who on earth might turn up and what it might be like. hugely impressed by people who've started feminist groups off of the back of posting on these boards and discovering stuff.

i was inadvertently a bit rude to someone though hopefully they didn't take it that way at an afterschool play community thing the other afternoon. i asked her how old she was and when she said something like 23 my chin nearly hit the floor and i was genuinely shocked. she has lived here forever, she's applied to be on the pta, she's only ever had sex with one man, her husband, who she met here in this village and they've never moved away or gone and done anything outside if you like. she's a mum to 4 yo twins. both me and another friend who is a bit older than me and not native english were like wow! you're SO young i didn't realise and both of us with a kind of sadness in our voices. really rude and i immediately dug myself out and stuff but i just couldn't believe that she was 23 - my immediate response was that blimey i was living and working overseas on a year out of my education that age.

it is remarkable really that we talk about things and situations as if they were the olden days but lots of young people are still living these situations. you forget if you go and live in cities and be around students and travellers and stuff for years that it's not all like that.

apologies for the massive tangent. i finally got a decent night's sleep last night and my head has switched back on with a vengence.

Saf... I'm just 26 :o though I do like to think of myself as travelled and well lived in that short time. My school friend, who must be at least 6 months younger, had 4 dc under 3!