This birthday party really got me thinking. . .

[FrankNCock]

Went to a party today for a friend's 2 year old DD at The Most Pretentious Indoor Play Centre Ever and several things made me a bit

So there was the obligatory 'princess theme'. When it was time for the lunch, it was sandwiches that had been cut into shapes of a top and skirt, and pink squash in plastic mini-wine glasses. Kids sat at tables arranged in a horseshoe, all decorated in pink, flower petals, tulle netting, glitter, etc. The birthday girl herself sat at a separate table at the open end of the horseshoe. It was decorated sort of like you'd imagine Barbie's desk, complete with a giant fancy pink phone. And there was the giant pink felt crown.

Ok, so it wasn't to my taste, and if I had a girl I could not see myself having a party like this. But I really got annoyed at the separation of girls and boys.

There was a craft activity. Girls made headbands with ribbons and flowers and glittery shit all over them (all in pink of course). Boys were shunted to the far end of the table to decorate blue door hangers. Boys and girls were given different cups just to hold popcorn (princesses for girls, pirates for boys). Different party bags (girls had Peppa Pig, boys had footballs). At the end, girls got pink balloons, boys got blue.

I just don't understand why everything had to be so different? I felt sad for all of them, and I can't even put my finger on why. More experienced feminists, want to help me?

Right, Messy. That's what I was wondering. Where do we draw the line, so to speak?

bleurgh. I am having a "birthday tea" for my ds this month as am bloody skint. Just four of his mates. two hours tops. I have a piece of stamp-sized lawn they could 'rush around' I suppose. But wouldn't recommend it as it's a mud bath after rain.

mathanxiety, I definitely understand what you're saying, I don't think I expressed myself very well there. I guess the thing is at age 2, most clothing choices are made by the parents, and it's just nice to see a little girl dressed in a more practical way. Particularly so when more often you hear mums shouting 'don't ruin your dress' and actively restricting their DDs because of the clothing they're wearing (which that child probably didn't choose in the first place!). For older children, I really don't judge it in the same way, I know kids are very active in choosing which clothes to buy. Though I do wonder how early one's personal sense of style is formed. Some of my earliest memories are of pretty dresses being itchy.

If it helps any, I also judge when mums of boys dress them in designer stuff and then restrict their play so they won't ruin their clothes!

I echo most of what has been said so far. I also have an almost 2 year old and she doesn't know whether she's a boy or a girl, though she does refer to herself as a boy fairly frequently (I think partly because it's easier to say than girl and also her cousins / friends at CMs are mainly boys so she probably hears the word more often.) She has some 'girls'' toys and some 'boys'' toys but is mostly into colouring and cleaning. Dh buys her quite a lot of boys' clothes because she generally refuses to wear a dress / skirt and boys' trousers fit better than girls' over her massive nappy.

Anyway I feel that we are not really helping our dds by choosing for them to avoid pink (and I do think it's our choosing with children under 3 or so). We are just creating another division, but between the girls rather than between the girls and the boys - 'lower orders' was actually used earlier in the discussion. I think a much better goal (although how we could work towards this I have no idea...) would be for us, as a society, to defeminise the pink toys and the 'girly' stuff. Why is it girly??

I don't really feel 100% comfortable knowing that I will steer my daughter away from pink glittery shit (and I know I will), when actually it will be (or should be) no reflection on her if that's what she likes. I don't want that to be all she's allowed to like and I don't want her to be looked down upon because of that choice. If everyone, boys and girls, could choose the pink, glittery shit and that not be associated with going on to be a low-achiever, I don't think I would worry about it all.

Not sure I have really articulated what I wanted to say ...

Maybe we could start by destigmatising the 'femininity'. I think the problem is not so much that it's seen as 'feminine' but that what is 'feminine' is stigmatised. I think that would be a liberating act for boys too.

Sometimes I wonder if the achievement gap between girls and boys in later stages of school has to do with the feminisation of activities such as reading and the sort of quieter pursuits that schools tend to encourage and reward, or a combination of that and the association of boys with riotous behaviour and impatience with intellectual pursuits.

Totally agree Milo and Math, that's what I meant earlier about girls being able to wear boys' clothes but never the other way round. It is seen as unacceptable to put a boy in anything remotely pink or frilly, because these things are seen as feminine and therefore demeaning.

However, having just come back from a baby shower where mixed sex twins are expected, it was rather heartening to see only one overtly blue/pink set of gifts, the rest weren't totally neutral but getting there.